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Re:There's never been a better time to build websites by jokethrowaway on Monday December 20, 2021 @11:32AM (#29626716)
The problem is that expectations changed, so now you're "required" to do more in certain contexts.

I absolutely loath frontend developments in companies with more than 5 engineers. In the past you may have found some spaghetti code and various abuses of jQuery but you could probably grasp the codebase in an afternoon. Nowadays every mid company codebase is a spaceship. For sure, you'll find a pseudo technical VP of engineering which enable whatever cool technology to be used and resume driven developers happy to pile on the latest Big Tech framework - which is likely to be an over-engineered, over complicated exercise in engineer retention and engineer roles marketing.

Then you have Pieter Levels pulling a mil per year with PHP and jQuery.

Re:There's never been a better time to build websites by jakelazaroff on Monday December 20, 2021 @04:02PM (#29630246)
> In the past you may have found some spaghetti code and various abuses of jQuery but you could probably grasp the codebase in an afternoon.

My first job out of college involved a Rails codebase littered with conditionally rendered jQuery snippets. It was a nightmare to figure out what code was even loaded on any given page. Give me a modern JS codebase over that any day.

Re:There's never been a better time to build websites by lewispollard on Tuesday December 21, 2021 @03:32AM (#29635251)
Yeah, as someone who started out in JS with procedural jQuery, moved onto prototype overloading shenanigans with classes, and now React with functional components - the JS ecosystem and tooling is still a huge mess, but I wouldn't want to go back to jQuery or prototype class hacks. At least a modern React codebase has a whiff of engineering to it. No matter how carefully we did stuff the old way at the companies I worked for, it sooner or later became an unmaintainable mess of hacks and overrides.
Re:There's never been a better time to build websites by hooby on Monday December 20, 2021 @12:04PM (#29627096)
One big question: These "expectations" you are talking about, who's expectations are those?

Might it be possible that those expectations, and those requirements for doing "more", are not coming from the actual users/visitors to the websites - but rather from the companies owning the websites?

Because I, as a visitor of HN, come here for the IT news and the nerd stuff. I happily put up with the layout - because the sites actually meets my expectations for content. At the same time, the best, most modern, snazziest website ever... why would I go there (more than once), if there's no content of interest to me?

And that - to my experience - holds true for almost ALL visitors. They come for the content, and they put up with the layout. And this table-based layout with spacer gifs right here, imho is a lot easier to put up with, than some desing-heavy website that's perfectly optimized for conversion, engagement and retention rates and whatnot.

I think the actual problem is, that when we talk about "expectations" and "requirements" - we talk about what the HOST/SELLER wants - not what is best for the visitor.