I live in a west coast city that has seen an explosion in crime, much like San Francisco. While anecdotal evidence is not the same as data, I can tell you from my own experience and those of many others I’ve talked to, you won’t see the data reflecting the true crime rate because people don’t bother reporting it to the police. In my city, it’s not uncommon to wait on hold with 911 for up to 20 minutes at a time. If the police show up, it’s often hours later. When they do, they will typically tell you there’s nothing they can do, especially if the crime in question is a property crime. The best you can hope for is a police report.

In my city, car theft has become so rampant that a whole new subreddit has emerged specifically to track stolen cars here. Groups of citizens with guns sometimes organize on Facebook to go reclaim stolen vehicles from homeless encampments. Catalytic converter theft is also rampant. My street has been hit multiple times. Our shared mailboxes have been broken into over and over again. Stores in my neighborhood routinely experience break-ins and thefts. Shootings are through the roof. In October 2019, there were 28 shootings in my city. In October 2020, there were 88, and in October 2021 there were 129.

Sometimes, when the thermometer reads 98.6, it’s because the patient is healthy. But sometimes, it’s because the thermometer is broken.

Must be Portland

There’s been a spike in 2021 from 2020, so they are up from historic lows, but they are still pretty low on a long-term scale.

Here’s one article on the spike (but there are lots, from different sources and regions): https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/crime-rate-in-san-franci...

I’ve read that police simply aren't reporting low level crimes at the rate they used to due to staffing shortages and apathy. I would be curious to see the data too, but I doubt it paints the whole picture.

There is a political aspect too: The reactionaries and GOP have been pushing how dangerous and horrible cities are for many years, major cities being Democratic strongholds. It was a major focus of the GOP and Trump in the last election.

It seems like if they repeat anything enough - anything - eventually people of all political stripes take it as assumed fact.

It seems like you keep pushing the narrative that problems with SF are not real and a fabrication of the GOP. You have posted multiple comments doing this.

But you don’t live in SF and have no firsthand knowledge. All you are doing is advancing your own political agenda from a remote location through online commenting, with no regard to the truth people here are witnessing.

> with no regard to the truth people here are witnessing

I mean, a bunch of anecdotes are still a bunch of anecdotes. Especially on an anonymous internet forum.

> All you are doing is advancing your own political agenda from a remote location through online commenting

You could say the same thing about those anecdotes you're referring to.

For what it's worth there's plenty of other anecdotes to the contrary. I live in the Bay Area and SF is a fun, beautiful city except for the Tenderloin and some parts of Mission street. I'm glad the local government finally taking their heads out of the sand and doing something. Though it's a complicated issue with no easy answers and frankly I'm not holding my breath

> You could say the same thing about those anecdotes you're referring to.

No, they are not the same. People here are posting what they have experienced.

The person I was responding to is only spreading a theory that SFs problems are just a GOP meme. That person does not live in SF and is not reporting their own experience. Only what they have read.

For them to be true, you’d have to accuse the people reporting their experiences of lying, while taking the poster I was replying to at face value. That would be delusional.

I’m taking them all at face value, unless there is evidence to the contrary.

Your opinion about SF is certainly valid, but has nothing to do with a distant person talking about GOP memes.

> The person I was responding to is only spreading a theory that SFs problems are just a GOP meme.

That's fair, he doesn't live here, but I can vouch for his idea that SF woes are exaggerated for political purposes.

I used to live in a very conservative part of California and they used to talk about how the Bay Area is an expensive shithole. I had to move here due to work and was surprised that everything here seems to be about the same price. You get slightly less apartment for the same price, but price floor is pretty much the same. The roads are definitely not as nice but taking public transportation is actually feasible option here. Homelessness mostly hasn't been a problem except for those two areas in SF and Oaklamd, aside from there it's only slightly higher than other major cities I've been to, with the possible exception of Vancouver, where it's actually better.

Hopefully my anecdote has enough detail to convince you that I'm at least being honest :)

> For them to be true, you’d have to accuse the people reporting their experiences of lying, while taking the poster I was replying to at face value. That would be delusional.

Yeah I agree, I reached the same conclusion as that poster by experience, but you definitely shouldn't take it as fact based on it's assertion alone. I think he was just throwing it out there in hopes of starting a discussion, but that's definitely a charitable interpretation.

> I’m taking them all at face value, unless there is evidence to the contrary.

Statements like these remind me of the old saying from a bygone age "only a fool would take anything posted here as fact." Anonymous internet posts have no bar for entry and as such, should be treated with extreme skepticism.

>> I’m taking them all at face value, unless there is evidence to the contrary.

> Statements like these remind me of the old saying from a bygone age "only a fool would take anything posted here as fact." Anonymous internet posts have no bar for entry and as such, should be treated with extreme skepticism.

Sure but then you have to take literally every post with extreme skepticism. If you pick and choose, then you are simply deluding yourself. If you don’t pick and choose but assume everyone is lying, then you end up in a uselessly paranoid position.

This is why I take the statements at face value for the purpose of the conversation.

And as I have said elsewhere - people sharing their actual experiences is very different from a distant person saying it’s all a GOP plot.

For what it’s worth, I have lived in SF, and the East bay, as well as Europe, and SF is not as bad as the GOP would like to claim, but frankly who cares. Nothing is as bad as the GOP claims.

What does seem true to me is that SF and the Bay Area in general does have serious problems and some things have been getting worse for a while. E.g. homelessness. There simply weren’t the same tent cities all over the bay 20 years ago.

My point is that this has nothing to do with the GOP meme. Introducing that is literally a way to distract from what is actually going on.

> The person I was responding to is only spreading a theory that SFs problems are just a GOP meme.

That's not what I said.

(EDIT: For what it's worth, regarding political polarization, I just 'vouched' for your formerly 'dead' comment to me above. While I disagree and don't love how it's handled, it shouldn't be killed IMHO.)

Maybe notice that everyone but you is polarized.

Maybe notice that only you are talking about GOP memes and polarization.

You could google it. There's actual polling and data that backs it all up. Why write up all this without just doing a google search? It's not like we're talking about something that's hard to find....

It may seem like that, but it is not in my words. Perhaps it's a result of political polarization and the suspicions it creates? Let's do away with that. I only meant what I said.

> The reactionaries and GOP have been pushing how dangerous and horrible cities are for many years, major cities being Democratic strongholds. It was a major focus of the GOP and Trump in the last election. It seems like if they repeat anything enough - anything - eventually people of all political stripes take it as assumed fact.

It sure looks like what you are saying.

If you want to play games about it not being your precise wording, you can do that on your own. The only person making politically charged statements here is you.

That person isn't even from SF and only has an ideological agenda in this. They should be ignored.