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Re:Former Harvard chemistry chair to stand trial for alleged... by dang on Wednesday December 15, 2021 @06:21PM (#29572818)
Please don't take HN threads into nationalistic flamewar. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Former Harvard chemistry chair to stand trial for alleged... by Trombone12 on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @09:30AM (#29551866)
It says "chinese" for a reason dude, and the problem is obviously that you are harassing innocent people.

And if you don't see that as human rights problem, consider you're wasting your finite intelligence resources on dead ends and so you're not finding the traditional spies that's just some dude that's been bribed.

Re:Former Harvard chemistry chair to stand trial for alleged... by ryeights on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @09:43AM (#29552018)
Charles Lieber is not Chinese. So what is your point?

On a more general note:

Your style of argument is really tired. Who is going to commit wrongdoing on the part of the Chinese government if not mostly Chinese people? You can always try to reframe the issue as one of discrimination, since most of the offenders are bound to be Chinese. It’s pointless.

Re:Former Harvard chemistry chair to stand trial for alleged... by szhsh on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @02:06PM (#29555890)
So far, the "China Initiative" cases have not gone well for the government, though they have still done a lot of damage to innocent people who were targeted.[0]

It's also clear that ethnically Chinese people have been specifically targeted.

Anming Hu is a Canadian citizen born in China, who was a professor at the University of Tennessee. The FBI got him fired before he even went to trial by telling the University he was a spy. In the end, all the FBI actually had on him was that he hadn't reported a small speaking fee on an official form. It wasn't even obvious if reporting the fee was necessary. The whole thing turned out to be a racially motivated fishing expedition by some local FBI agent, and Hu was acquitted. But the FBI majorly screwed up his life and career and smeared him in public first.

A lot of the cases have turned out to be like this. See Gang Chen's case at MIT. That one is almost Kafkaesque, when you read the charges and then read the background.

0. https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2021-09-16/why-trump-...

Re:Former Harvard chemistry chair to stand trial for alleged... by GhettoComputers on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @05:20PM (#29558882)
>What exactly is wrong with considering China as the enemy? China is a genocidal, totalitarian state that actively tramples over human rights.

Can that not also be leveraged against the US, and how others feel about it? America is the world's bully or policeman.

>IMO it is the closest thing to pure evil in this world next to the DPRK.

Check out Eritrea, commonly called the North Korea of Africa. They will extort foreign family members for money so they don't kill their family in Eritrea. I know a programmer in Australia, sends lots of money back money to a country he hates so they don’t kill his family. China doesn’t even do that. Of course the US also double taxes. ;)

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Re:Former Harvard chemistry chair to stand trial for alleged... by ryeights on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:04AM (#29553070)
> The Uyghur population is increasing. The birth rate is similar to that of the Han majority. Uyghur life expectancy is increasing. Incomes and literacy are increasing.

According to who? The Chinese govt?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/12/chinese-uyghur...

>”Genocide" means a systematic attempt to physically destroy an ethnic or religious group. The 3-child policy in China (which applies to the Han majority as well) does not even come close to being anything like an attempt to physically eliminate the Uyghur people.

There is no basis for your claim that the forced sterilization/abortions of the Uyghur people occurs at similar rates within the Chinese majority, or that it is merely an enforcement of the three child policy.

Re:Former Harvard chemistry chair to stand trial for alleged... by szhsh on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @11:29AM (#29553444)
> According to who? The Chinese govt?

All of the sterilization / birth control claims are sourced to Chinese government data. That's the best data available.

Given the large economic investment in Xinjiang (which is part of China's attempt to decrease dissent) and the very visible improvements in living standards there, it makes sense that life expectancy is increasing.

> There is no basis for your claim that the forced sterilization/abortions of the Uyghur people occurs at similar rates within the Chinese majority

Up until a few years ago, forced sterilization / abortion was something that basically only the Han majority was subject to. The Uyghurs were exempted from the 1-child policy, just like most ethnic minorities.

Over the last few years, China has loosened the policy, so families can now have 3 children, but it has started applying it to ethnic minorities as well.

> There is no basis for your claim [...] that it is merely an enforcement of the three child policy.

No basis? There's no basis for believing otherwise. If you pay attention to the reporting, the horror stories are mostly about people who have had more children than the policy allows. You can very legitimately oppose China's 3-child policy, but calling it "genocide" is obvious hyperbole.

"Genocide" is an extremely serious accusation. It means an attempt to physically annihilate a people. It evokes images of death camps and crematoria. Yet you're now arguing about whether or not the Uyghurs might be subject to harsher enforcement of the 3-child policy or not. That's not genocide. The word should not become a cheap rhetorical tool.

Re:Former Harvard chemistry chair to stand trial for alleged... by ryeights on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @02:16PM (#29556016)
At this point it is clear you are merely regurgitating CCP propaganda. All of your claims map 1:1 to those made solely by the Chinese government, and have been refuted in outside reporting.

“Documents from 2019 reveal plans for a campaign of mass female sterilization … Xinjiang planned to subject at least 80 percent of women of childbearing age in the rural southern four minority prefectures to intrusive birth prevention surgeries (IUDs or sterilizations), with actual shares likely being much higher.”

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/future-perfect/22311356/chi...

I will not be responding further.

Re:Former Harvard chemistry chair to stand trial for alleged... by szhsh on Tuesday December 14, 2021 @03:08PM (#29556806)
I'm making what are pretty obvious, factual claims. I don't think that any of the factual statements I'm making are even controversial. It's just the interpretation that has suddenly dramatically shifted in the US and some of its allied countries.

The UN Genocide Convention is very clear about what is and is not genocide. There's no possible way to construe a situation like this, in which the population and life expectancy of the group is increasing, as genocide. In fact, describing it as genocide sounds like propaganda.

If the Chinese government were trying to physically annihilate the Uyghurs, which is what the very serious word "genocide" means, it would be obvious. We would not be discussing whether or not the 3-child limit was being more aggressively enforced on Uyghurs. We would be discussing mass death.

I don't need the CCP to tell me that "genocide" implies mass killing and physical annihilation of a people. I'm perfectly capable of seeing that the word "genocide" is being misused in a highly manipulative way in the political discussion nowadays, and of pushing back against that.