California is the only state to hide its spending – nearly $300B a year

Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by elteto on Sunday December 12, 2021 @02:43PM (#29532898)

One issue is that schools in disadvantaged areas tend to already have bad performance, and if you tie spending to performance results they will in turn receive even less funds, which will cause them to fall even more behind and then get even worse results, and so on the cycle goes. It’s a negative feedback loop.

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Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by reducesuffering on Monday December 13, 2021 @09:12AM (#29539706)

I got corrected, I mean educated, on this previously but even though the outcome isn't desired, it's still a positive feedback loop. A negative feedback loop is self correcting in a sine-wave type homeostasis.

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Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by zozbot234 on Sunday December 12, 2021 @03:59PM (#29533553)

You can adjust for historical school performance (even across multiple schools w/ comparable demographics). That still rewards teachers who perform better than average.

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Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by elteto on Sunday December 12, 2021 @04:04PM (#29533600)

Maybe. A good teacher can only do so much without resources.

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Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by WalterBright on Sunday December 12, 2021 @04:57PM (#29534063)

A good teacher can do a great deal with just a blackboard and chalk.

Most of the classes at Caltech were just that - blackboard and chalk. Often there wasn't even a textbook.

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Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by yongjik on Sunday December 12, 2021 @07:56PM (#29535381)

So, one of the world's most prestigious school employs the brightest scholars, with private offices and regular international travel on the employer's dime to attend conferences, and they are essentially paid to spend their waking hours thinking of really difficult problems they'd love to solve.

They're never expected to worry about year-end donation drive to manage the school band's budget, finding out who vandalized all the bathrooms, or how to talk to Sally's parents after she missed school for three days. And they get to teach some of the best, brightest, most motivated students America produces.

Yeah, all they needed was a blackboard and chalk. Who needs more resources?

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Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by WalterBright on Sunday December 12, 2021 @10:43PM (#29536373)

The point remains. A teacher and a blackboard are all that is really necessary to educate. Building a palace to house the classrooms does not help.

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Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by elteto on Sunday December 12, 2021 @07:42PM (#29535299)

C’mon Walter. You can’t really compare a class at Caltech, of all places, to an inner city classroom.

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Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by WalterBright on Sunday December 12, 2021 @07:48PM (#29535342)

I don't buy that there's any evidence that a school with "resources" does a better job educating than a motivated teacher with a blackboard.

Heck, hands-down the best calculus lesson I ever had was a one-on-one with a prof and a blackboard.

I suppose it's like running. No technology can make you a better runner than a good coach and a desire to run.

P.S. note that colleges compete on "resources" all the time. But that simply isn't what matters. It's the prof, the blackboard, and the student. Facilities don't matter. Sports programs don't matter. Landscaping doesn't matter. Luxury dorms don't matter.

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Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by elteto on Monday December 13, 2021 @07:39AM (#29539010)

How many homeless students did you have in your Caltech class? Were they going to bed hungry? Were Caltech professors in danger of being physically attacked? Did they have to buy their own chalk? Did they receive decent compensation for their work?

If you can’t see or understand the incredible amount of _hidden_ infrastructure in place at a place at Caltech so that you could sit down and think about nothing but Calculus with a world class professor then you are extremely privileged.

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Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by WalterBright on Monday December 13, 2021 @02:11PM (#29543140)

Are you really arguing that the lower quintile in income in America are all homeless and hungry and attacked?

Secondly, there is a federal school lunch program for all the students that need it. This program is not underfunded, and is not what I am talking about when discussing educational "resources".

> Buy their own chalk.

Oh please.

> incredible amount of _hidden_ infrastructure in place at a place at Caltech

There were many opportunities to join research activities. This was not necessary for the education, though. I didn't partake of that, as research did not interest me.

> so that you could sit down and think about nothing but Calculus

Sorry, but that does not require incredible infrastructure. It just doesn't.

> world class professor

Being a researcher is not the same thing as being an effective teacher, not at all. They weren't hired for their teaching ability. I doubt any had any training whatsoever as teachers.

I'm amazed at the notion that teaching with a blackboard and chalk requires incredible infrastructure.

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Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by WalterBright on Monday December 13, 2021 @03:02PM (#29543847)

I forgot to mention - freshman and sophomore Calculus was taught by grad students, not professors. Grad students have no training in teaching, are very poorly paid, and do it only because that's part of the aid package they received.

Freshman physics was taught by Prof Goodstein, who is a world class physicist. I had no personal interaction with him at all. The homework was graded and administered and coached by grad students (in "recitation" sessions). A couple years after I graduated, his lectures were recorded and made available as "The Mechanical Universe" series of videos. Lots of fancy animations and stuff were added, but in my not-so-humble opinion added entertainment but little value.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8_xPU5epJddRABXqJ5h5...

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