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Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by chmod600 on Sunday December 12, 2021 @01:00PM (#29531859)
If two people are making $150000 each, that's a household with $300000 in income. That's not bad for a stable government job.

Also, I don't see why it's unfair to call a teacher or firefighter overpaid. If you work for a private business, nobody else knows or cares about your salary. But when you work for government, every taxpayer has a right to complain. Especially for taxpayers who make less than the government position.

Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by scrollaway on Sunday December 12, 2021 @02:07PM (#29532536)
> Also, I don't see why it's unfair to call a teacher or firefighter overpaid.

Education should be extremely well compensated. There's a host of reasons why it's a good idea to pay teachers the way doctors, lawyers and engineers are paid; but it all comes down to wanting the best and brightest working in education, because kids getting a shitty education decreases the country's ability to produce bright people, whereas kids getting a good education increases the country's overall intelligence.

Instead, those people work on ads. Idiocracy thought it'd be the cosmetics industry. Turns out…

Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by czhu12 on Sunday December 12, 2021 @02:51PM (#29532973)
You're arguing for higher standards for teachers, which would naturally increase the market rate compensation. I don't think thats whats happening.

We can have a discussion about increasing the minimum training for teachers to be additional years + a PhD. I'm sure this would naturally increase the quality of teaching and also increase the market rate for teachers since there are less people who are qualified.

We can also discuss raising salaries if the school simply cannot find enough teachers.

It doesn't make as much sense to say we should simply increase the pay of teachers if there is a huge backlog of qualified applicants.

I believe SF is having a teacher shortage, so for that reason, it makes sense to increase teacher pay. But I think too often people make moralistic arguments for government pay but free market arguments for everyone else.

Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by johnhowardstein on Sunday December 12, 2021 @07:51PM (#29535362)
Mostly because government pay trails free market rates. So the moralistic arguments come in to play because they're so underpaid.
Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by chmod600 on Sunday December 12, 2021 @02:29PM (#29532753)
Someone might also reasonably feel that more money for teachers does not, by itself improve outcomes. It's certainly possible for bad teachers to be paid a lot, which some people might call "being overpaid" even if there exists some other teacher that is making more money and is perhaps underpaid.

Or, someone might reasonably think that teachers play only one part in educational outcomes, and that investing more in teaching quality isn't an efficient use of resources.

Or maybe both those people are wrong. But it's hardly dangerous to entertain the complaints of the people paying the bills.

Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by syshum on Sunday December 12, 2021 @03:03PM (#29533073)
I will agree with your position the second compensation for teacher is tied to performance. However unions do not want any compensation tied to performance, nor do most people on the "left"

They simply want the high salaries with no responsibly to produce results.

Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by unethical_ban on Sunday December 12, 2021 @07:14PM (#29535129)
>Especially for taxpayers who make less than the government position.

Why?

Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by Bud on Sunday December 12, 2021 @01:05PM (#29531911)
Having a "right to complain" doesn't mean that it's accurate, fair, just, or a good idea to complain.
Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by SllX on Sunday December 12, 2021 @02:39PM (#29532868)
Every dollar paid to the government in taxes is a dollar someone else earned. People are going to complain about that, and it is entirely fair and just to do so. Whether it’s a good idea boils down to where your own politics are, so that’s always going to be subjective.
Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by unethical_ban on Sunday December 12, 2021 @07:15PM (#29535138)
Implying they could have earned that money without the existence of government. Government is an essential service.
Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by chii on Sunday December 12, 2021 @09:02PM (#29535736)
> without the existence of government.

paying less taxes doesn't imply that the gov't ceases to exist. The gov't has no competition, so every entity within the gov't has every incentive to increase their own revenue by maximally expending tax dollars.

It is up to the people paying taxes to reduce it, as a counter-balancing force, and hold the spending efficiency to a good standard.

Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by SllX on Sunday December 12, 2021 @07:48PM (#29535344)
It’s not implying anything. That is literally how taxes work. See income taxes: A compensatory agreement between employer and employee is I pay you $X for work. The government then levies a percentage of that money for itself. You can see that on your paystub. You’re not paid $X and an amount equal to a percentage of $X is then donated to the government, that percentage comes directly from your compensation.

It’s a revenue stream for governments, sure, but how much revenue a government needs is determined by what policies a government has in place, their obligations to pay employees and officers, and what additional services the government offers. The politics is all around that stuff, but a tax is still a taking of the money that someone else earned to pay for all that, including to pay public employees.

Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by johnhowardstein on Sunday December 12, 2021 @07:52PM (#29535365)
All that legal tender is thanks to the government.
Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by SllX on Sunday December 12, 2021 @07:59PM (#29535400)
Sure, legal tender demands a government by definition, it’s right there in the word “legal”. Money, or rather currency doesn’t.

That’s also irrelevant because that doesn’t address what a tax is, or how it ended up in a government’s treasury, or why it is there in the first place.

Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by specialist on Sunday December 12, 2021 @10:15PM (#29536194)
Correct. Government spending (investment) is a loan we repay thru taxes.
Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by chmod600 on Sunday December 12, 2021 @01:22PM (#29532087)
So what's the "dangerous precedent" then?
Re:California is the only state to hide its spending – nearl... by johnhowardstein on Sunday December 12, 2021 @07:50PM (#29535353)
Very well then. I will complain.

These people are underpaid. We have every right to expect the best in these positions, why are we not paying for it?