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Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by josephcsible on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:02AM (#29511430)
This is the kind of thing that the CFAA is supposed to be for. If a fired employee broke into the office and welded the HR department's door shut, they'd end up in prison, and what these people are doing is just as bad.
Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by tedivm on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:07AM (#29511496)
These are strikers, not fired employees, and what is happening is a protest. It's no different than mailing in a bunch of applications, it's just digital instead. They aren't burning down the offices (although I think it's fair to point out that most of our labor rights do come from unions threatening- and in some cases doing- things exactly like that).
Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by gruez on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:34AM (#29511846)
>These are strikers, not fired employees, and what is happening is a protest

Why is this relevant? Does being labeled as a "striker" give you additional legal rights that you wouldn't otherwise have?

>It's no different than mailing in a bunch of applications, it's just digital instead. They aren't burning down the offices

"not burning down offices" seems like a pretty low bar for acceptable conduct. that doesn't mean their behavior is legal. The obvious analogy would be: would it be legal to spam a pizza restaurant with fake orders? Or spamming a doctor/hospital with fake appointments? Or spamming police departments with fake tips?

Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by fennecfoxen on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:46AM (#29511988)
> Does being labeled as a "striker" give you additional legal rights that you wouldn't otherwise have?

Actually, yes.

For instance, if you are an employee who is striking, you have the right to use racial slurs to abuse and harass employees who are not striking, without being fired for use of those remarks. See Cooper Tire & Rubber Co. v. NLRB. (Remarks included: "Go back to Africa, you bunch of f--- losers!", statements regarding fried chicken, watermelon, etc.)

There are a variety of other rights conferred by law.

Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by likpok on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:51AM (#29512080)
Being a striker does give additional legal rights you wouldn't other wise have, but I don't think that this is one of them. It's also unclear whether the author or people using the script are actually fired employees or bored teenagers jumping on the bandwagon.

Spamming a police department with fake tips is specifically illegal (making a false police report and/or obstruction of justice and/or USC 1001). I'm not sure about fake appointments for a hospital, that seems the most unclear of the cases you've listed.

Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by hello_marmalade on Friday December 10, 2021 @10:15PM (#29518076)
Yes, strikes are okay as long as they aren’t inconvenient or worse, effective.
Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by onphonenow on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:17AM (#29511635)
Be careful with the claim that a "protest" makes something legal.

A bunch of trump supports went to Washington to "protest" - not turning out very well for them. Similarly with many other protests (BLM etc etc), folks getting picked up breaking windows, stealing, burning down buildings etc - they don't get off free because it's a protest or there is not something in the law that makes calling something illegal a protest legal.

Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by tedivm on Friday December 10, 2021 @02:06PM (#29514069)
> Be careful with the claim that a "protest" makes something legal.

No one made that claim.

Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by onphonenow on Monday December 13, 2021 @03:16AM (#29537750)
There was a claim that because this was a protest it was OK to use code to flood a website with applications.

For anyone who has paid attention to CFAA if you have a computer used in interstate commerce and someone knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer, then whamo, down you go.

This code that has been written to disrupt the operations of this business (Kellog) if it does disrupt their operations and they complain, the person knowingly transmitting it is at risk.

Again, calling something a protest is not a free pass.

Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by bhhaskin on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:19AM (#29511655)
Except they are fired employees. Kellogg fired them. Wether you believe that's right or wrong, let's not distort reality.
Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by sdfjksbdf on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:39AM (#29511900)
They haven't fired them. They're beginning to attempt to start to replace them.

"Rutgers University professor Todd Vachon, who teaches classes about labor relations, said he's not sure the company will be able to hire enough workers to replace the ones who are out on strike in the current economy, and Kellogg's may have a hard time finding people willing to cross a picket line."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kelloggs-will-replace-striking-...

Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by bhhaskin on Friday December 10, 2021 @03:14PM (#29514930)
If they are permanently replacing the old workers that pretty much means they no longer have a job.

So yes. They have been fired. Kellogg has announced that.

Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by gremlinsinc on Friday December 10, 2021 @10:49PM (#29518238)
In an economy where finding workers is really tough, where target, walmart, etc have had to raise min wage to 15+ and add free college tuition....

They cannot fire the employees in question, they can only replace them 1:1 and w/ the amount of publicity, and the striking it's bound to deter a lot of potential applicants, and with people using automated and manual methods to spoof applications --some presumably locally even going through the entire application process, going through training, and quitting day one on the floor... seems to me like it'll bleed Kellogg's dry long before they ever find the employees they need to continue.

They're more likely to fully automate 100% of the plant before they find the staff they need for permanent replacements.

I'm seriously betting Kellogg's does a full reversal, esp when profits start to fall, and revenue expectations get dwarfed by the boycotts that are ongoing.

Personally, I can do without ever buying poptarts, eggo waffles, or any of their cereal. There's plenty of alternative junk food out there to fill the gap.

Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by josephcsible on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:14AM (#29511574)
If something's not okay to do, calling it a protest doesn't make it okay. For example, consider what should happen to someone who robodials 911 to protest police corruption.
Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by tedivm on Friday December 10, 2021 @02:06PM (#29514063)
I 100% think this is right to do. The only thing this harms is the company's bottom line, and frankly it's ridiculous how much power corporations already.

Your metaphor to police corruption is also why "context" is an important thing. In that case people would actually get hurt, in this case a company loses money. They are different scenarios completely.

Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by dreyfan on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:13AM (#29511568)
I would encourage you to look at how prosecutors have successfully utilized the CFAA as a blunt instrument before making analogies that may garner upvotes on HN but wouldn’t reduce a prison sentence.

Logic is not part of the CFAA.

Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by cwkoss on Friday December 10, 2021 @12:11PM (#29512382)
CFAA is a bad law: it's excessively broad and can apply to almost anything.

However, Kellogg's is soliciting job applications from the public. Automating the submission of a single application is clearly legal, but submitting many with the intention of overloading digital systems is clearly illegal.

IMO, this case is legally ambiguous because they are using a digital system to overwhelm a human system.

The public is 'authorized' to submit one application, so it's hard to say submitting many applications is unauthorized, unless done with intent of crashing servers.

Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by confidantlake on Friday December 10, 2021 @04:57PM (#29515937)
Does this mean that spam is illegal? I get so many emails that they overwhelm my ability to process the legitimate ones.
Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by aaomidi on Friday December 10, 2021 @12:06PM (#29512286)
Imagine having this stance on employees striking for a better compensation.

Yeah fuck it if this is bad, then I definitely don't want to be good.

Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by scollet on Friday December 10, 2021 @05:47PM (#29516412)
It's not the same and I don't see why we would need to put someone in jail for your analogy.
Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by josephcsible on Sunday December 12, 2021 @01:30AM (#29527607)
You don't think there should be jail time for breaking into and vandalizing a building?
Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by wayoutthere on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:13AM (#29511559)
If this is illegal, the law is wrong. This has become the case in enough places that the law is losing relevance in our lives.
Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by fennecfoxen on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:27AM (#29511754)
Why is the law wrong?

By what principle does a group of striking employees have some intrinsic God-given right (or right conferred by some other source of truth, outside the law) to sabotage the company that they are protesting? Is the company their property, that they have veto power over hiring? Is the labor force their property? If there is some property-like interest that grants these rights, then under what circumstances would that interest became their property rather than the original worker's? Is it strictly first come, first serve? Is there a vesting period during which this right accrues? Are the striking employees as a group to be considered a form of government, that they may regulate hiring and firing? What elevates this right or interest over other cherished principles, such as free association? Or do the strikers simply wish to subjugate such principles to serve their own self-interest?

I believe that you propose mob rule. It is no surprise, then, that you are in conflict with a nation ruled by laws, rather than by mobs and strongmen.

Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by josephcsible on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:15AM (#29511596)
Why do you think it should be legal to sabotage your employer's systems in response to a labor dispute?
Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by wayoutthere on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:24AM (#29511718)
Because they are sabotaging labor’s ability to negotiate fairly. Turnabout is fair game.
Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by josephcsible on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:27AM (#29511755)
If you try to buy a car, but you and the seller fail to reach a deal, is it okay for you to let the air out of their tires, since they sabotaged your ability to negotiate fairly?
Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by wayoutthere on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:31AM (#29511802)
Buying a certain car at a certain price isn’t a requirement to feeding your family. Making enough money to buy food is.
Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by saas_sam on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:49AM (#29512033)
Working a specific job at a specific price isn't a requirement for feeding your family either. Neither is living in a specific location for a specific rent price, for that matter. The idea that you are entitled to whatever job you want to work at a price that you think is fair is just as absurd as insisting you are entitled to a specific car at a specific price.

If you have somehow gotten yourself into a position where you are supporting a family based on knowing how to do one thing that you can only do for one company, sorry but you either massive screwed up your life (unlikely) or you are afraid to step outside your comfort zone and work elsewhere (likely).

Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by gruez on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:37AM (#29511877)
>Buying a certain car at a certain price isn’t a requirement to feeding your family

It isn't? In many parts of the US a car is needed to hold a job, or to even get to the grocery store (which might be miles away). Moreover, grocery stores do provide the means to "feed your family". Does that mean looting/vandalizing them is fair game after failing to "negotiate" with them?

Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by wayoutthere on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:52AM (#29512094)
Let’s play word games, that’s really productive.
Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by gruez on Friday December 10, 2021 @12:39PM (#29512866)
I fail to see how my comment is "play[ing] word games".
Re:Code to flood Kellogg with bogus job applications after s... by slothtrop on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:32AM (#29511821)
Anti-union laws would be, but firing everyone isn't tantamount to that. Future applicants still have the ability to organize.