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Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by swarnie on Thursday December 09, 2021 @04:38AM (#29495477)
I thought it was because of the monopolistic behaviour and market abuse.

Do you have an example of anti-American discrimination?

Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by akyoan on Thursday December 09, 2021 @04:43AM (#29495504)
Nah, they just read the umpteenth "American company fined by EU country" and assume it's not fair for the company. What they don't realize is how good customer protections laws are in Europe compared to most of the world.

The fact that $1000+ purchases are only covered for a year in the US for example is kind of a joke (in the EU it's 2 years)

Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by nickpp on Thursday December 09, 2021 @04:44AM (#29495512)
And that is why a corresponding product is more expensive in EU than in USA. Extra guarantee is nice, but nothing is free.
Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by yulaow on Thursday December 09, 2021 @05:59AM (#29496044)
Is it? Before tax I usually pay less for products in Europe than in USA, at least for all those related to electronics
Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by missedthecue on Thursday December 09, 2021 @03:24PM (#29502459)
Can you give an example? I have sent devices from the US to friends in Europe because of the price difference.
Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by yulaow on Friday December 10, 2021 @11:56AM (#29512140)
All macbooks

EG: the 14 base model is $1999 before tax in apple.com and e1832 before tax in my euw state

Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by akyoan on Thursday December 09, 2021 @06:40AM (#29496288)
Touché. I'm not sure how much the difference in pricing is a direct consequence of consumer protection laws or just import fees, etc.

For the record, an iPhone 13 Pro costs EUR 951 before taxes in France, which means it's 7% more expensive than the US. However with taxes it's USD 1,303, which is probably quite a bit more than any after-tax price in the US.

Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by account42 on Thursday December 09, 2021 @06:43AM (#29496305)
Sure, but (at least as a country) you are also paying for the disposal of those products so its better to incentivize companies to make things more durable. Plus the cost isn't 2x and often not that much different once you take into account that the EU list price already includes taxes.
Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by jusssi on Thursday December 09, 2021 @05:39AM (#29495906)
The protection goes both ways though. Court ordered compensations are based on actual damages. No one here dreams of getting millions for burning their mouth on hot McD coffee.
Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by nickpp on Thursday December 09, 2021 @05:47AM (#29495971)
> No one here dreams of getting millions for burning their mouth on hot McD coffee

You do know that this is not how that story went, right? The popular version of the story you mention is just wrong.

Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by jusssi on Thursday December 09, 2021 @05:53AM (#29496007)
Settled for undisclosed amount after the last court round was at $640 000 (which both sides appealed).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restau...

The point being, in EU you'd be expected to know hot coffee is hot, and get nothing for pouring it over yourself. At best you'd be looking at medical expenses (loss of income is covered by state).

Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by chrisseaton on Thursday December 09, 2021 @06:31AM (#29496246)
What more is there to the story?

My understanding is the jury decided that the primary issues was that the warning was not large enough on the cup, and that's why they awarded damages.

I can't really understand being served a cup of hot coffee and complaining that you were not warned that it was hot. Coffee is a hot drink. There’s a natural limit at how hot it can be at 100 degrees, so I don’t really understand ‘too hot.’ What did you expect? You must have known it would be between 0 and 100 degrees and acted accordingly.

Subsequent lawsuits have re-inforced that the coffee was served at a reasonable temperature, and the temperature is the same as served at Starbucks, and recommended by independent coffee groups. My understanding is that McDonald's serve at the same temperature today.

I think the idea that the coffee was 'too hot' is a bit weird and a bit of a myth.

Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by nickpp on Thursday December 09, 2021 @08:37AM (#29497156)
Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by chrisseaton on Thursday December 09, 2021 @08:40AM (#29497178)
Didn’t I already respond to those points?

As I say the temperature they served coffee at hasn’t changed and has actually been tested to be ok in subsequent lawsuits in multiple countries. It’s the same temperature as served by other companies.

McDonalds weren’t required to change the temperature as the outcome but they did increase the size of the warning.

And at the end of the day how can any temperature of coffee be too hot? It’s a hot drink. It’s never going to be more than 100. Assume it could be that hot. Other hot drinks like tea have to be made with boiling water so are always served that hot.

I think a lot of people have a knee-jerk reaction to this story that McDonald's must be at fault, but when you look into the details that's not really the case. She even admitted she was at fault and she just wanted someone to pay her medical bills.

Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by nickpp on Thursday December 09, 2021 @04:43AM (#29495506)
All the recent actions directed against Google, Apple, Facebook or Amazon. None of these is a monopoly in any sense of the word. Well, maybe Google, a little.
Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by unionpivo on Thursday December 09, 2021 @07:20AM (#29496526)
My analysis:

People often get cough up in definitions of what is or isn't monopoly or what free market is, on HN. And its even often argued in USA politics. In EU its far less. What is important is the perceived result (Apple, Google, Facebook have enormous power over daily lives of people) and how people feel (weather something is fair of not). And many inside EU myself included think that

> Google, Apple, Facebook or Amazon

are abusing their market position, that they are doing shady stuff to limit competition, starting to use more and more dark patterns, avoiding taxes (taxes are higher in EU so people are more pissed if somebody is "getting away with it") and generally don't trust them.

So politicians (that want to score points with people) are doing what people want.

Another thing is, that some of this companies are starting to become so powerful that they are starting to worry politicians themselves. So politicians are "defending their turf", by smacking the upstarts when they can. (This is happening in USA as well )

Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by nickpp on Thursday December 09, 2021 @08:40AM (#29497180)
This is a good analysis. Personally, since somebody will inevitably have enormous power over my daily life anyway, I'd rather have it be corporations because they actually have to provide useful stuff to exist and the competition will keep them in check.

Unlike politicians whose first interest is getting elected and second getting reelected with any other concern at a huge distance away.

Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by unionpivo on Thursday December 09, 2021 @10:37AM (#29498543)
At the end of day power is power. Once a corporation has enough of it compared to local governments it might as well be "government like entity" themselves, or like in case of defense contractors (not just USA, look at Airbuss in EU, Ariane in France, NSO and others in Israel) where it's hard to draw a line where corporations end and government start.

There are plenty of places with week governments in the world, where global multinationals are above the law (look at Africa, some south America).

If corporations get big enough, this might start happening in more developed world as well.

I perhaps notice it more because I live in small country (Slovenia) whose entire national budget is lower than any one of the FANG's. This is one of the reason I support EU despite it's many shortcomings.

Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by swarnie on Thursday December 09, 2021 @04:46AM (#29495521)
Google you admit is a monopoly

Apple have abused their hardware position to artificially restrict and abuse devs via their app store.

Facebook - Do we really need to do this? Facilitating genocide and election interference both don't fly over here.

Amazon - Being a market place and a seller on said marketplace is a no no. Using your customers data from your market place to undercut them and run them out of business is again a no no.

Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by tpush on Thursday December 09, 2021 @05:16AM (#29495740)
> Apple have abused their hardware position to artificially restrict and abuse devs via their app store.

A monopoly on their own product is an incoherent market definition that isn't flying anywhere.

> Amazon - Being a market place and a seller on said marketplace is a no no. Using your customers data from your market place to undercut them and run them out of business is again a no no.

Every single retail store in the EU (and the rest of the world) does that. Completely normal. That's what store brands are.

Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by nickpp on Thursday December 09, 2021 @04:55AM (#29495574)
Google is the best kind of monopoly: one sustained by the quality of the product. If there was a better competitor tomorrow, we'd switch in a heart beat and Google could do nothing about it. No consumer harm there.

Apple has created their own hardware platform(s) and it has a healthy competition for it. There are rules to be on it and they are mostly for the benefit of the consumer.

Facebook is simply a forum. If facilitating communication facilitates genocide and election interference it's people who are the problem, not Facebook. Besides, TV & Radio are much bigger facilitators for genocide and election interference and nobody attacks both.

Amazon - any physical retailer is both a market place and sells its own competing products crated using said customer data. Just visit any supermarket.

Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by jacquesm on Thursday December 09, 2021 @05:13AM (#29495721)
> Google is the best kind of monopoly: one sustained by the quality of the product.

Oh now you've done it, there goes my tea and a keyboard. That was wildly funny, thank you. For a moment there I thought you were serious.

Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by nickpp on Thursday December 09, 2021 @05:17AM (#29495744)
Do you not find value in Google's offerings? Do you know of better alternatives?

Just talking about Search: I've been using it daily for over 20 years now, I couldn't live without it and I know no better search engine, even though I would switch in a heart beat.

Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by jacquesm on Thursday December 09, 2021 @05:21AM (#29495772)
That same Google that uses their monopoly in search to push their other product lines? Such as Chrome, shopping, 'information snippets', news, social networks and a whole raft of other mediocre products that wouldn't even exist if not for their monopoly on search?

Not finding value in Google's offerings is not what it is about: it is about abuse of monopolistic power, and Google is very guilty of that.

Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by nickpp on Thursday December 09, 2021 @05:43AM (#29495935)
We were talking about product quality... but OK.

While not exactly fan of Google pushing their other offerings, I still have to find someone who doesn't do that on their own properties. Even our office landlord keeps pushing us to rent some more parking spaces.

But that does not make it a monopoly and the very fact that those other offerings are unsuccessful shows that this behavior is not that problematic.

I am willing to put up with it if this means preventing yet another competition stifling, consumer harming, incumbent favoring - regulation.

Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by forgotmyoldacc on Thursday December 09, 2021 @05:16AM (#29495736)
If you know of a better search engine, please name it. I would love to switch.
Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by ColinHayhurst on Thursday December 09, 2021 @10:26AM (#29498391)
one sustained by their own walls and that of frenemies: browser, OS, device. https://blog.mojeek.com/2021/09/multiple-choice-in-search.ht...
Re:Italy fines Amazon record $1.3B for abuse of market domin... by Eldt on Thursday December 09, 2021 @04:30AM (#29495425)
Is that clear?