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Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by arcticbull on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @04:04PM (#29490477)
> ... seeking to merge with other democratic nations (Australia, Korea, Japan, Taiwan).

That presumes that other countries want to be part of America. I suspect strongly you'll find that's not the case. Merger then has a more "1812" feeling to it.

The only folks tripping over their shoelaces to be US states are Puerto Rico and DC.

> America needs to onshore manufacturing of critical chemicals and components. Steel. Electronics.

While these are strategically sensible decisions, that won't bring back Apple any time soon. Everyone manufactures in China because there's a critical mass of manufacturing in China. All your components are made there, by everyone, and the best-in-class assembly folks are all there. Supply chain and logistics are all there.

China's investments in ports, roads, railways are paying dividends. Including their one belt one road initiative offering overland rail links to the UK.

It's not sufficient to just say "let's make stuff at home" - it requires real, long-term, strategic thinking, huge investments and optimizing for the group. These are not America's strengths right now.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by WoodenChair on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:18PM (#29491872)
> All your components are made there, by everyone, and the best-in-class assembly folks are all there. Supply chain and logistics are all there.

The first part of this statement is inaccurate and the second part is accurate. No, all of the components in your iPhone are not made in China. Yes, they have the logistics and capability to assemble efficiently. No, they do not make everything in an iPhone or Mac—not even close. Examples of major components often not made in China:

- Microprocessor (Taiwan)

- Memory (South Korea)

- Screen glass (USA)

- Audio, Wifi Chips (USA)

- Gyroscope (Switzerland)

- Accelerometer (Germany)

- Display (Japan)

- Camera (Japan)

The batteries tend to be made in China, but many of the raw materials that go into the batteries are not. Also, Apple has successfully had iPhones assembled in India, so there's no reason to believe if they chose to, they couldn't (at very significant cost and ramping up and effort) move assembly. iPhone prices might go up then though.

See more here: https://www.lifewire.com/where-is-the-iphone-made-1999503

Or checkout the book The One Device https://amzn.to/3pDolNW

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by vdqtp3 on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @04:48PM (#29490970)
> tripping over their shoelaces to be US states are Puerto Rico

That's inaccurate, repeated votes for statehood in PR have failed.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by nradov on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @05:04PM (#29491162)
No representation without taxation. PR residents don't have to pay US federal income tax, and most of them aren't willing to pay that price to get the political benefits of statehood.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by colinmhayes on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:15PM (#29491835)
Failed is a misrepresentation. They haven't been overwhelming victories, but the majority of voters voted to become a state in the most recent vote.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by 908B64B197 on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @05:38PM (#29491489)
> I suspect strongly you'll find that's not the case. Merger then has a more "1812" feeling to it.

Ironically, the hardest challenge for the British during the war was to keep their soldiers from deserting to the US. Since there was no way a young British male could legally come to America from the UK, joining the army then crossing into America was their only hope.

Ironically today, the countries named by the GP (Australia, Korea, Japan, Taiwan) all have a net inflow of people to trying to get into the US, mirroring what happened in 1812. The political elites might laugh at the idea of a merger (considering they have a vested interest in keeping power) but it seems to make sense for a lot of their highly educated citizens who decided to make it happen here in America!

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by arcticbull on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:14PM (#29491822)
> ... but it seems to make sense for a lot of their highly educated citizens who decided to make it happen here in America!

That's not the same thing as wanting to abandon independence. Folks go to work in other countries not because they want their home country to be America. Those smart highly-educated workers aren't moving to America so much as the Bay Area to work at tech companies and make money - based on my personal experience and that of every other immigrant I know. Even those that went on to become US citizens wouldn't begin to entertain the idea of folding in their home countries.

I've lived in America for years but I certainly have zero interest in "merging" in Canada. I couldn't want anything less, tbh.

They're both unique and interesting countries in their own rights, with quite different peoples and values.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by 908B64B197 on Thursday December 09, 2021 @12:17AM (#29494086)
It's interesting that the narrative is that when people move to Canada, it's because they have a deep desire of becoming Canadian, and according to the current administration deserve it even more than the folks who built the country [0], but when it's people coming to the US it's simply for higher pay and not because they want to make America their home.

Meanwhile, there are now universities where 85% of the graduating class immediately moves to the US upon graduation [1]. And the numbers have actually increased during the Trump administration, despite the narrative that the US would stop attracting international talent.

[0] https://globalnews.ca/news/3567893/justin-trudeau-jealous-im...

[1] https://twitter.com/danluu/status/1351785083598893062

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by arcticbull on Thursday December 09, 2021 @08:30AM (#29497085)
> It's interesting that the narrative is that when people move to Canada, it's because they have a deep desire of becoming Canadian.

That’s fine on an individual level but that doesn’t mean they want to merge their home countries into Canada!

Someone from Italy may move to the US but that is totally disjoint from them wanting to make Italy the 51st state. If they retain a strong positive association with the attributes of their home country, they want to retain independence to preserve them. If they have a negative association with their home country they have no interest in merging them either as they've actively distanced themselves from the negative attributes of their home state.

Someone moving from California to New York doesn't want to see CA and NY merge into one bi-coastal superstate any more than someone moving from India to Canada wants to see a bi-continental megastate.

> Meanwhile, there are now universities where 85% of the graduating class immediately moves to the US upon graduation [1]. And the numbers have actually increased during the Trump administration, despite the narrative that the US would stop attracting international talent.

The number of people who desired to stay after college went up, but visa issuance was suspended so they were precluded. They can want to stay all day long, they're not being allowed to. And that will have an effect in time. Meanwhile... [1]

[1] https://www.ft.com/content/b663ef33-2b6c-42ea-8952-bee9673f6...

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by 908B64B197 on Thursday December 09, 2021 @02:48PM (#29502027)
> The number of people who desired to stay after college went up, but visa issuance was suspended so they were precluded

What I posted is people who moved to the US, not people that had a desire to move.

> Meanwhile... [1]

It's interesting, because in these stories Canada is never the first choice. Seems like every story starts with someone being unable to qualify for US immigration using Canada as a back up plan.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by arcticbull on Friday December 10, 2021 @05:16AM (#29508321)
> It's interesting, because in these stories Canada is never the first choice. Seems like every story starts with someone being unable to qualify for US immigration using Canada as a back up plan.

Yes, because these are economic migrants and economic migrants are going to try for the most active and lucrative market first. If they can't get a visa, they'll certainly take their second pick. They'll then build up that market over time. This is why we have Shopify in Canada. The ecosystem builds on itself and it one day won't be quite so distant a second choice.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by vineyardmike on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:33PM (#29492000)
I suspect apple manufactures in china at least partially because china requires it to access their market.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by mullingitover on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @04:32PM (#29490804)
> That presumes that other countries want to be part of America.

I feel like if there was a referendum, the UK's population would happily dump their monarchy in exchange for US statehood. There's a lot of commonality with their democracy, language, skepticism of foreign immigration, embrace of capitalism, etc.

It would also be a pretty solid strategic move to bring the US closer to Europe as a hedge against the Russian ambitions laid out in their Foundations of Geopolitics playbook.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by phist_mcgee on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @05:25PM (#29491361)
I think you misjudge how much the Anglophone world looks down on America, and Americans in general. We take great pride in Australia of our differences from that place. We're much more similar to the British (and them to us) than to the Americans.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by 908B64B197 on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @05:39PM (#29491498)
... And yet there's a net brain drain to the US.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by lmm on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @10:11PM (#29493361)
There's a brain drain to California, much of which has an even more negative view of the US than other countries.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by sangnoir on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:12PM (#29491796)
1 in 3 people resident in Australia is an immigrant. I don't think Australia is losing the immigration game, all things considered.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by 908B64B197 on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @08:17PM (#29492686)
The problem is, it's not a numbers game: quality matters a lot.

Importing massive amounts of unskilled labor only depresses wages and, combined with NIMBY, creates a massive housing bubble thanks to artificial shortages.

In Australia's case, it also suffers from a disproportionate brain drain of highly educated professionals since local firms simply won't compete for talent.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by sangnoir on Thursday December 09, 2021 @01:18AM (#29494422)
I hope you're not suggesting that Australia is getting low-quality immigrants. Unlike the US, Australia has a points-based immigration system where you have to meet specific, standardized criteria, which IMO is more objective than the US process. I don't know what guidance State Department staffers follow when determining who gets a visa, but the process is more opaque, and I suspect more subjective.

edit: I think the "quality" argument is overrated. Not all immigrants do ground-breaking research or start billion-dollar companies. When it comes to economic activity, quantity has a quality of its own (apologies to J. Stalin). A city/state/country with the economic activity of an extra 20% population of mediocre, healthy, tax-paying, car-buying, mortgage-paying, burger-eating blue and white-collar immigrants is better off than one without.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by 908B64B197 on Thursday December 09, 2021 @02:45PM (#29501990)
> I don't know what guidance State Department staffers follow when determining who gets a visa, but the process is more opaque, and I suspect more subjective.

Except for categories where there's an extremely high burden of proof for extraordinary abilities, it's simply someone's ability to get a job no American is qualified to take (and be so in demand that it commands a salary in the top percentiles for the profession).

So the market takes care of the selection.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by arcticbull on Friday December 10, 2021 @05:18AM (#29508325)
> ... it's simply someone's ability to get a job no American is qualified to take.

Not exactly, its someone's ability to get a job that their employer cannot find a more qualified candidate after advertising the job in the local newspaper for 6 months including at least two separate Sundays.

Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by 908B64B197 on Friday December 10, 2021 @02:53PM (#29514703)
There's more to it than that.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by arcticbull on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @09:07PM (#29492998)
When you're discussing merging nations, it is in fact a numbers game.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by phist_mcgee on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:49PM (#29492131)
Maybe in high tech service jobs, but not the average punter on the street. Migration from Australia is usually for greater economic opportunities, which all things considered only includes a small number of countries and a limited set of occupations.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by arcticbull on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @06:17PM (#29491852)
You misunderstand immigration, as I explained in a different reply.
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by makapuf on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @04:40PM (#29490877)
UK dumped EU, which didn't asked for country dissolution, not sure it would agree to join USA...
Re:Apple CEO Tim Cook 'secretly' signed $275B deal with Chin... by mullingitover on Wednesday December 08, 2021 @04:51PM (#29491013)
UK voters (imho) were still stinging from the economic decline and austerity measures post-2008, and were led to believe that a divorce from the EU would restore their greatness. Now that that's been demonstrated to be a delusion, and with covid-related economic collapse piling on top of Brexit consequences, UK voters might be open to a dice roll.

This is obviously my idle speculation, and I think the UK voters would never be allowed to vote on such an opportunity anyway. Still, I think if it happened it'd be great for everyone.