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Re:Secretive Prisons That Keep Migrants Out of Europe by blfr on Sunday December 05, 2021 @03:36PM (#29452954)
> People move across borders when they need to.

Both Hungary and Poland have shown that a modern state can largely prevent illegal crossing of its borders. We have the technology. It's not that difficult. Even easier when you have a sea acting as a barrier.

When the migration happens on a massive scale regardless, it's usually with tacit or explicit establishment's approval.

Re:Secretive Prisons That Keep Migrants Out of Europe by abrowne on Sunday December 05, 2021 @03:42PM (#29453028)
But Hungary and Poland aren't a destination goal for the vast majority of migrants, so they only have to make the route through their countries worse or harder than alternative routes. That's not comparable to the EU as a whole.
Re:Secretive Prisons That Keep Migrants Out of Europe by zerr on Sunday December 05, 2021 @03:45PM (#29453052)
Actually, seeking an asylum is perfectly legal. What those border countries are doing is illegal.
Re:Secretive Prisons That Keep Migrants Out of Europe by f6v on Monday December 06, 2021 @02:27AM (#29457138)
Also, seems like the values changed drastically after 2015. I was told it was our moral obligation to help the refugees. Now it’s 180 degree turn. Makes you think helping people wasn’t really a value in the first place, since those can’t change so radically.
Re:Secretive Prisons That Keep Migrants Out of Europe by native_samples on Monday December 06, 2021 @04:28AM (#29457789)
The EU as an institution/trans-national government has virtually no identifiable values beyond self-expansion and consolidation of power. All other claimed values disappear the moment they come into conflict with those other two.

Consider human rights. The ECJ loves to overrule government decisions on migration/asylum on the grounds of human rights, they do it all the time. The inability to deport Islamic "hate preachers" was one of the contributing factors in the Brexit campaign, in fact. Yet the moment Austria placed a large fraction of its own population under indefinite house arrest without trial, in violation of the Nurenberg Code no less, the EU was mysteriously silent.

Or how about the rule of law. When eastern European countries were electing conservative politicians the EU couldn't shut up about how the "rule of law" was being violated, though they never quite explained how. Then Latvia's parliament banned unvaccinated MPs from voting, violating the most basic rule a democracy has and at a stroke disenfranchising whole chunks of their population. Once again, the EU couldn't find anything to say about this.

I rest this case with a few quotes from Jean-Claude Juncker, former head of the EU Commission. He said these things whilst running the EU's most powerful body:

"We decide on something, leave it lying around, and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back."

"When the going gets tough, you have to lie."

"I'm ready to be insulted as being insufficiently democratic, but I want to be serious ... I am for secret, dark debates"

"I believe neither the French nor the Dutch really rejected the constitutional treaty." (they did, of course)

In the end the, the EU does have values but those values are not the sort of values they're willing to publicly advertise.

Re:Secretive Prisons That Keep Migrants Out of Europe by rebuilder on Sunday December 05, 2021 @03:40PM (#29453001)
This is a temporary situation with relatively few people involved. Counterexample: the US - Mexico border.

Keeping an airtight border is a very expensive task. You can probably be harder to get into than the next country, but in the context of the EU, that's not really a solution, it's just a way to make the problem worse.

Re:Secretive Prisons That Keep Migrants Out of Europe by KptMarchewa on Sunday December 05, 2021 @03:44PM (#29453043)
The goal is not to have 100% foolproof solution, but one that makes it not worth a try.
Re:Secretive Prisons That Keep Migrants Out of Europe by rebuilder on Sunday December 05, 2021 @03:52PM (#29453128)
People are willing to risk their children drowning in the Mediterranean in order to get into the EU. How much worse can we make it?
Re:Secretive Prisons That Keep Migrants Out of Europe by KptMarchewa on Sunday December 05, 2021 @04:30PM (#29453497)
They only do that because they believe they can succeed. Widespread propaganda could resolve that.