I'm happy to talk about energy efficiency in the micro (dishwashers) or the macro (shipping), but we have to first agree that crypto has no legitimate use cases and is just waste, so we can dispense with this whataboutism that's currently in vogue in crypto threads.
The mining of the USD is oil extraction, especially in war-torn or human rights abusing countries. Why aren't we talking how the US economy is based on extracting and selling and speculating the very thing burning our planet? Not even counting the numerous wars it created.
I don't think the BTC hash function has a hard requirement on using energy from fossil fuels, does it?
Because it has an army, a government, and an economy behind it that can enforce a great many things (both good and bad) on people using it. And extracting oil is not the single (and I'd say not even the single biggest) source that makes USD a reality. Besides, USD is not the only currency.
On the other hand, if you buy a physical item with your magical coin and it doesn't arrive, or someone is in a breach of your magical contract, or <a thousand other use cases>, good luck.
Fiat currencies are real because we all agree that they're real. You can pay your taxes with them, you can buy a house or your groceries. I don't think Bitcoin, or other crypto, can yet claim they're real because their worth is expressed almost exclusively in terms of fiat currency. Even if some business does accept crypto, it's expressed as a conversion from an underlying price in terms of fiat.
Because it's yet more whataboutism? We can debate how we should transition to renewables and what we really need energy for, but I think we agree we need it?
> I don't think the BTC hash function has a hard requirement on using energy from fossil fuels, does it?
I'd love it if the crypto community kicked out fossil fuel miners. That'll obviously never happen.
But again I ask you, what's the point of cryptocurrency other than crime?
And we are talking about currencies and the utility of said currencies. About the governing structures and operating costs of those currencies. Looking at USD, a well accepted traditional currency with the backing of the territorial violence monopoly we so kindly call sovereign nations, is certainly a reasonable argument as we are essentially comparing green apples to red apples.
So what does the traditional economy system gives us? War, global unrest, dependency on fossil fuel extraction.
Choosing to have a personal war with a system that proposes to do away with the violence monopoly because it requires a nuclear power plant or two of power to operate is an odd position.
Well I mean, what do you use it for?
> territorial violence monopoly we so kindly call sovereign nations
Literally every civilization is this. It's the first thing you learn in social contract theory and is super easy to derive from first principles. Basically in order to have a more secure society, individuals band together by giving up the use of violence on each other in order to focus their efforts on protecting themselves and their livelihood.
> So what does the traditional economy system gives us?
Literally everything we have. Feel free to cherry-pick some of the worst things but, also I mean hey, I'm enjoying Firefox, HN, and my radiator heat thank you traditional economy.
> Choosing to have a personal war with a system that proposes to do away with the violence monopoly because it requires a nuclear power plant or two of power to operate is an odd position.
Why is it so hard for crypto advocates to come to grips with the current reality of their ecosystem? No one would be upset if crypto all ran on green energy, and if you all really cared about it you'd make it happen. You obviously don't. Which is fine! But you can't have it both ways; you can't belch billions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere for your projects and then be like, "well, we're fixing it, we promise". I mean, if you really believe that, shut down until it's fixed.
It also gives you roads, education, safe travel, global commerce, global communication,...
All blockchains and crypto coins do are doing is spending several countries worth of energy expenditure on scams.
> proposes to do away with the violence monopoly
Next time you buy anything physical with crypto and it doesn't arrive, you'll be the first in line to demand monopoly on violence.
You mean energy production?
Do you apply the same standards to threads about personal vehicles? Or for that matter, energy consuming/producing technology in general like, you know, computers?