And yet: Steve Jobs wanted PWA's (or something similar) in the beginning and begrudgingly made an App Store.

Yes, I know the circumstances are different, but I do think it's ironic.

That was just a cover for the fact that the app store infrastructure wasn't ready and they weren't even certain the iPhone was going to take off. They only had so much engineering talent and money, and it went into the phone itself. They had been working on the beginnings of app franeworks and the store before launch. The huge response to the iphone caused them to both lower the price (to widen the potential market once it would be wildly profitable) and increase the speed/budget of the app infrastructure engineering.

I guess the grudge went away as the billions started pouring in.

> And yet: Steve Jobs wanted PWA's (or something similar) in the beginning and begrudgingly made an App Store.

or it was just the typical double speak from Jobs until they were able to launch their walled garden. Anyone else remember when iPhone users were told they were holding the iPhone wrong during Antennagate? [0]

[0] https://www.engadget.com/2010-06-24-apple-responds-over-ipho...

US antitrust law is based on tests of harm to the consumer (though most people do not know this nor about its application due to lack of enforcement). Apple frames everything they do as positive for the consumer to throw up chaff that makes consumer harm harder to quantify for people who don't know better.

Same as https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21161271/apple-settlement-...

>Them having the ulterior motive of stifling PWAs

>the effect is that innovation is stifled.

There's no such thing as PWA. There are several dozen of standards, and any combination of them is called PWAs by various people. And quite a few of those combinations work perfectly fine on Apple devices.

What's worse is that too many of those standards are extremely badly designed (service workers) or are pure Chrome-only "standards" rammed through standards bodies (Bluetooth, HID etc.).

Supporting manifests to "install" a webapp to my home screen isn't something difficult for Apple/Safari team.

They just don't get their cut from it, so, not a priority.

According to web.dev, the Chrome propaganda site:

--- start quote ---

Talking about mobile phones and tablets, a Progressive Web App is installable with offline capabilities using the following browsers and app stores:

- iOS and iPadOS

Safari (since iOS 11.3), AppStore (since iOS/iPadOS 14, with some limitations), Mobile Configuration for enterprise distribution.

--- end quote ---

PWA’s aren’t ‘innovation’. Apps can do far more than PWAs.

I believe the stifling of innovation the parent comment refers to is that of browser engines, not of PWAs.

It’s not innovation if it’s just catching up to what another platform has been able to do all along.

In a walled garden, the ability to for the user to do what they want, where they want is perceived as innovation.

The user can’t do what they want where they want on the web. The web is an adware and privacy destroying machine.

> The user can’t do what they want where they want on the web. The web is an adware and privacy destroying machine.

Sounds like you're setting a double standard when Apple also runs ads on their devices[0] as well as selling their user's private data[1]

[0] https://stevestreza.com/2020/02/17/ios-adware/

[1] https://www.macrumors.com/2021/11/26/apple-italy-fine-user-d...

> Sounds like you're setting a double standard when Apple also runs ads on their devices[0] as well as selling their user's private data[1]

Anyone who claims those are equivalent to what is going on on the web is being dishonest.

Neither of the articles even claims that Apple was “selling user data”, so that’s a straight up lie.

I can’t help you if you are going to post links that don’t say what you claim they are saying.

Really?

Why did Spotify and Pax Labs make PWAs again?

No idea about Pax Labs.

Spotify creates native apps for everything. "PWA" aka the web player is there for devices that don't have a native app yet, and for embedding.

Good question- what innovation did they bring?