The "overlearning the game" problem

Re:The "overlearning the game" problem by roel_v on Monday August 29, 2011 @07:32AM (#2936783)

You're not suggesting an alternative, well maybe in the most abstract sense, but in your post several levels up from here there is not even a hint at how to address even just the most obvious flaws in letting people vote for each bill. There's no 'argument' made, just a cry for revolution - of the type that is very common amongst high school and undergraduate students; rising from a simplistic world view that fails to recognize that there is a reason why we've some to the situation where we are now, and that radical, sudden changes very seldom lead to the outcomes that they were designed to lead to. 'Juvenile' was not name calling; it's an (albeit unqualified and broad-stroked) description, or maybe rather 'characterization', of the argument and the context that lead to it.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:The "overlearning the game" problem by david927 on Monday August 29, 2011 @09:14AM (#2937018)

There are over 13,000 full-time lobbyists for the 535 representatives in Washington, and their only job is, when legislation goes the way of the public and not the way of their sponsors, to use their financial muscle to bribe a different outcome. Despite decades of the public electing officials who say they'll fight it, it has only grown worse. You don't seem to have valid alternatives other than to be deeply shocked at the notion of changing it.

So I don't need to explain myself to you. I don't need to go into details. I don't need to get your permission. None of us do. You had decades; your turn is up.

The future will see open government and direct democracy via the internet as the obvious, logical next step of politics. The internet has transformed nearly every industry -- and now it's simply time to consider transforming politics. And those students, radicals and "juveniles" who are launching it, won't care what you think. You had your chance. You fucked up. Now it's our turn, whether you like it or not.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:The "overlearning the game" problem by roel_v on Monday August 29, 2011 @02:51PM (#2938310)

Huh? Did you even read any of my previous posts? I don't care about how 'the internet will transform politics', and of course the current process is suboptimal, but those discussions are so repetitive boring and trite that I really can't be bothered with it. Nor did I ever try to. I was merely pointing out that your 'argument' isn't an argument in the honest intellectual sense of the word, it's just a cascade of slogans, and at first I thought it was going to be covered with a thin veil of content, but at least now you acknowledge that you're not interested in that and that you prefer to retreat to spouting empty rhetoric.

Of course you don't need my permission, why would I care, I don't even know you. I just thought that you were debating on content, and was annoyed that the one person who was providing sound reasoning was being downvoted for it.

Anyway, good luck with your revolution, be sure to post back when you're done.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:The "overlearning the game" problem by david927 on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @03:10AM (#2940442)

By 'you', I mean everyone who is satisfied with how things are.

What I'm saying is there are 13,000 full-time employees of rich clients, each representing a bus-load of money, whose job it is to stop what people want if it conflicts with what their wealthy sponsors want. That system cannot stand. It is rotten to the core.

I'm telling you that it's not about us or the people on HN. Politics have been gamed and the people know it, and they will change it. The internet has revamped industry after industry; politics is next. You can call it revolution. You may think I'm crazy and extreme. But I (and others) see something disastrously broken and are willing to use modern technology to fix it.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:The "overlearning the game" problem by pnathan on Monday August 29, 2011 @02:41PM (#2938274)

Wow, you really need to read history and learn a bit about mob behavior.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:The "overlearning the game" problem by david927 on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @03:01AM (#2940428)

No, you need to read history and learn about the success of democracies, that only third-world countries now are not democracies -- it's been that successful, and that all I'm suggesting is that instead of electing a Michelle Bachmann to vote on the laws, you can skip her and vote directly.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:The "overlearning the game" problem by wtracy on Tuesday August 30, 2011 @03:53AM (#2940512)

What on earth makes you think that direct democracy will eliminate the efforts of lobbyists? The money will just get redirected toward news and information outlets, because nobody will actually read the bills they are voting on.

[ Parent | on HN ]

Re:The "overlearning the game" problem by wnight on Wednesday August 31, 2011 @04:37PM (#2947442)

As long as voting costs nothing, and the work comes from someone else, nobody is going to take it seriously.

Instead, attach the voter's name to the bill, as either yay, nay, or abstain. When their position is proven wrong, fine them to cover the damages their mistaken choice cost.

As is, voting is unjust. It leads to abominations like the draft.

[ Parent | on HN ]