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Re:Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored... by dragonwriter on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @06:21PM (#29324841)
> I'm not a legal expert but shouldn't that be stupidly easy to deny?

Anything is easy to deny.

Denial isn't sufficient to win the point.

> We can fully prove our claims.

Saying “we can fully prove our claims” is stupid easy. Being able to is harder.

> This is assuming NSO were far- sighted enough to actually create such a paper trail

But they probably weren't, because they didn't anticipate being sued in California based on jurisdiction gained via the iCloud T&C.

Re:Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored... by FridayoLeary on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @06:28PM (#29324935)
The burden of proof should fall on Apple in an ideal world. Maybe a court ruling that one stupid checkbox at the end of a digital 10,000 word document isn't sufficient proof might be a good idea?
Re:Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored... by dragonwriter on Tuesday November 23, 2021 @06:36PM (#29325012)
> The burden of proof should fall on Apple in an ideal world

It does, but its not an element of a crime being proven, so the burden isn't “beyond a reasonable doubt”, but (as for most things in a civil case, though sometimes other standards apply) “preponderance of the evidence", for which you need to convince the court that, based on the evidence provided, the facts you need are more likely than not to be true.

Re:Apple sues NSO Group to curb the abuse of state-sponsored... by dodobirdlord on Wednesday November 24, 2021 @08:54AM (#29329945)
It does, but this is what the discovery process is for. If NSO wants to claim that they somehow got these accounts without agreeing to the EULA process themselves, Apple is going to request and the judge is going to approve a discovery request for NSO to turn over every record they have related to the accounts, when and how they were obtained, and who obtained them for NSO. If NSO wants to pretend that they have no such records, didn’t get the accounts themselves, and don’t know what third party obtained them, they’re going to get a very skeptical response from the judge, and they’re probably going to have to send a bunch of employees to go make statements that in addition to not having any records, none of them remember how this happened either. That’s probably the point at which Apple reveals that really they know via IP addresses or geolocation or something that all of the accounts were registered in an office building occupied by NSO, and then NSO gets sanctioned to hell and a bunch of employees are revealed to have lied in their testimony. That’s an absolute nightmare scenario for NSO.