Re:Why thieves love to steal catalytic converters
by Nursie on Sunday November 21, 2021 @10:47PM
(#29302506)
> To forcibly deprive them of their property is the removal of some portion of their life.
This portion can be made whole again by replacing the property, either through insurance, through restorative judgements against the perpetrator, or various other means.
Taking a life is final.
Re:Why thieves love to steal catalytic converters
by esyir on Monday November 22, 2021 @03:30AM
(#29304130)
Replacing property is still depriving others, just in aggregate, rather than on an individual level. Are e so divorced from the concept of how property is obtained that we think we can magic it out of an infinite pool?
Re:Why thieves love to steal catalytic converters
by Nursie on Monday November 22, 2021 @03:50AM
(#29304259)
> Replacing property is still depriving others, just in aggregate
Not if the original property is retrieved or the thief is made to pay.
I'm not sure in the context of this discussion, the worth of a human life, that your plea to consider where stuff comes from is that important.
Re:Why thieves love to steal catalytic converters
by esyir on Monday November 22, 2021 @05:06AM
(#29304769)
I see property in the current context as a proportion of a life. People invest time and effort, the better part of their lives to create and acquire property. The theft of such is thus a theft of said life.
Re:Why thieves love to steal catalytic converters
by ketzo on Monday November 22, 2021 @11:36AM
(#29308311)
And so if I take a candy bar from a drugstore counter, I deserve a 9mm round between the eyes?
Re:Why thieves love to steal catalytic converters
by esyir on Monday November 22, 2021 @10:13PM
(#29314219)
Sure, if you want to have 0 sense of proportionality.
Steal a candy bar, no biggie. Steal a car and I won't sweat that death.
Ideally though, the police would intervene. That they aren't is the root cause of this problem.
Property theft to many, even implicitly, is very much the equivalent of the theft of some quantity of their life. People work and struggle, expending some quantity of their life to acquire property. To forcibly deprive them of their property is the removal of some portion of their life.
The other way to view this is that in an ideal world, this is done by the state. The state alone possesses the means for other punishment. The individual cannot detain, nor can they fine or garnish wages. The sole means of action available to the individual is force. Thus, if the state is derelict in it's duty, the citizen has only the application of force at his disposal. When you're applying force, you'd better be willing to go to lethal, since being unwilling to do so drastically increases the risk to yourself if the counterparty doesn't play by the same rules.