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Re:Individuals Matter by csee on Monday November 15, 2021 @09:16PM (#29235892)
Realizing this is important for retention. It's damaging when upper management falsely thinks people are interchangeble, which is a common view among non-technical types and HR. This leads to 10x people feeling underappreciated and resentful, ultimately causing them to resign for higher compensation and more appreciation elsewhere. It can literally destroy small companies if an individual's unique contribution isn't properly understood and valued.

Managers should err away from language about "the group", "the team" or "collective" and really drill down to the level of individuals as much as is practical. This is the correct resolution for most decision making. "The team" is just an abstraction that's useful to a small extent for a certain class of decision making, but not beyond that.

Re:Individuals Matter by hinkley on Monday November 15, 2021 @11:13PM (#29236724)
What I've experienced at companies on a death spiral is that there are a few people everyone can agree are useless, and beyond that you start picking people based on your poor understanding of how the sausage is actually made.

Once someone really useful has been let go, you have the sudden realization that your situation isn't that different than theirs. If management can misunderstand Tim's value, they sure as hell can misunderstand yours. At which point everyone's productivity is compromised by existential dread, and the wheels just start coming off faster.

Re:Individuals Matter by quickthrower2 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @03:32AM (#29238251)
Yeah been there, and instaquit. That company seems to be a shell now.
Re:Individuals Matter by hinkley on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @01:38PM (#29244633)
This experience contributed greatly to How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Severance Check.
Re:Individuals Matter by 908B64B197 on Monday November 15, 2021 @09:33PM (#29236019)
> It can literally destroy small companies if an individual's unique contribution isn't properly understood and valued.

It's generally cheaper to poach engineers than to buy a company. Just food for thoughts.

Re:Individuals Matter by throwawaygh on Monday November 15, 2021 @09:51PM (#29236172)
Is this really true for small companies?

A senior at FAANG is worth sometimes well north of 500K/yr. There are plenty of folks strewn about small software companies that do similar work to a senior or even staff/principal at a faang at wildly huge discounts.

It's hard to find numbers for the value of small software businesses (OP's quote), but this article [1] puts the number at $667k. If that's true, the engineer is SUBSTANTIALLY more expensive than the business (you're not just renting the business for a year).

[1] In the period between 2013 and 2016, the average sale was $667,000. While some sales were obviously much higher, and some were actually a bit lower, this must be an encouraging figure for a business owner to see.

Re:Individuals Matter by PragmaticPulp on Monday November 15, 2021 @10:46PM (#29236535)
> A senior at FAANG is worth sometimes well north of 500K/yr. There are plenty of folks strewn about small software companies that do similar work to a senior or even staff/principal at a faang at wildly huge discounts.

Those discounts are why it's easier to poach the employees.

If a company has 10 engineers earning $200K/year, why would you buy the company for $667K per person and then pay the employees on top of that?

Just offer the employees $500K/year and they'll stream right over.

Re:Individuals Matter by throwawaygh on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @12:35AM (#29237252)
Oh, I misinterpreted GP. Yes, agreed: for small software shops, the key senior ICs are probably worth more than the company itself.
Re:Individuals Matter by 908B64B197 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @12:51AM (#29237347)
And when acquiring an existing company, the buyer is typically interested in keeping a lot of the engineering staff. I've only seen a few acquisitions where there was no interest in keeping the engineering staff (North comes to mind; this one was strictly for Google to get its hands on the patent the company had acquired from Intel).
Re:Individuals Matter by quickthrower2 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @03:37AM (#29238278)
There are only so many $500k spots available. If every engineer in the world said “I’m moving to SF and applying to Google” and assuming visa allowed that you’d see Google paying a lot less for talent! Which means that while some people earning 200k are underpaid, they can’t all be underpaid.
Re:Individuals Matter by pm90 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @09:03AM (#29240619)
Big Tech and most established companies make billions in profits off software products developed by engineers. Engineering Software Products is a highly specialized skill and absolutely isn’t compensated to the same degree as its impact; Silicon Valley was the first to realize and reward this somewhat adequately (IMO still not enough).

It’s really great for management types that they’ve managed to restrict the median compensation at fairly low levels; this is also the case for software outside of the well known tech hubs.

Re:Individuals Matter by quickthrower2 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @06:09PM (#29247424)
This might be true, and I agree SWE should always push for getting a decent slice of the pie. However how much of the 'value' is establishing a monopoly in some area of tech, rather than the tech itself. The mysterious "good will" or "intangible assets" of the brand value, institutional knowledge, having the right software and hardware in one place etc.

There is only one Google, but there are plenty of bright people who are capable of learning SWE.

If all the little tech companies were making $1m revenue per SWE too, then yes you'd probably see tech wages raise in line with that.

However those little tech companies haven't solved traction and growth yet (if they are aiming to at all), so they can't compete with SV and stay profitable. They don't have $100M in funding to throw into salaries.

Or from another angle - a individual SWE starting their own mini SaaS makes $2k a month. They are happy for this as a start, but on the other hand they are extremely underpaid!

An analogy - shouldn't Amazon warehouse workers be on double what they are paid, as without them Amazon can't ship anything!

At the extreme, workers getting the full value of what they are putting in would be something different to a corp, more like a co-op.

Re:Individuals Matter by pm90 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @06:56PM (#29247825)
Amazon warehouses is not a good example. Amazon can and does build warehouses where it can get cheap labor. Whereas most Big Tech firms are based in high CoL cities. Why? High skilled labor has much better leverage due to being in short supply.

I do agree with the point that many of these firms are operating under monopoly conditions. However, for them to be continue to be monopolies requires them to either hire or acquire the best talent that’s possible. The monopoly cannot run itself, and that’s the leverage that software professionals aren’t utilizing fully yet.

Re:Individuals Matter by throwawaygh on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @04:57PM (#29246827)
The larger worry for petite capitalists is not competition with large tech, but rather the possibility that senior engineers at small firms realize that they are the firm and have enough savings to jump ship, build an mvp, and cannibalize the old business.
Re:Individuals Matter by Jensson on Monday November 15, 2021 @11:41PM (#29236932)
Salary is per year, buying a company is a one time cost. Retention agreements are a part of the purchase so they know the employees they got will be forced to stick around if the purchase goes through.
Re:Individuals Matter by big_big_data on Monday November 15, 2021 @10:53PM (#29236582)
Not everything is just about the salary
Re:Individuals Matter by philipswood on Monday November 15, 2021 @11:01PM (#29236644)
Gelled teams are an actual thing though.

A good team can be better at something than all it's seperate members.

Re:Individuals Matter by Jensson on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @12:04AM (#29237067)
And a bad team can be worse at something than all it's separate members.