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Re:Firefox 94 has No Visible Border on unfocused tabs by userbinator on Monday November 15, 2021 @08:07PM (#29235297)
Maybe you're just the part of the population that loves constant change. I hate it because I see my software as a tool, not a fashion statement, and I don't need my tools changing all the time.
Re:Firefox 94 has No Visible Border on unfocused tabs by tshaddox on Monday November 15, 2021 @08:23PM (#29235448)
Constant change? The fundamental UI of desktop browser tabs has been largely unchanged in all major browsers for at least 10 years. Sure, sometimes the UI changes slightly and it annoys people who are annoyed at even the slightest visible change. But complaining about "constant change" or concluding that any time you are eagle-eyed enough to spot a visual change that constitutes "software being a fashion statement" is just a bit extreme.
Re:Firefox 94 has No Visible Border on unfocused tabs by wtallis on Monday November 15, 2021 @08:56PM (#29235725)
The threshold for what kind of UI changes are worth complaining about should not be set at drastic fundamental reorganization as you seem to want, nor at the "any visible difference" you impute to Mozilla's detractors. Rather, the threshold should generally be at any change that requires existing users to re-train or otherwise detracts from the productivity of experienced users.

Mozilla in recent years has been flagrantly ignoring the usability costs of their changes and has shown a willingness to make gratuitous changes. Many of these changes could make sense if Mozilla expected their user base to be on an exponential growth trend, such that the existing users who are alienated or annoyed by changes will soon represent a small portion of the overall username. But that's obviously not the situation Mozilla is in.

Re:Firefox 94 has No Visible Border on unfocused tabs by userbinator on Monday November 15, 2021 @10:49PM (#29236556)
Sure, sometimes the UI changes slightly and it annoys people who are annoyed at even the slightest visible change

Considering that the visual processing model of the human brain is based on change detection (hence why animations will get your attention and are distraction), all unnecessary changes do is add mental noise and force reaccommodation, wasting countless hours of trained behaviour. Once a UI becomes familiar, you don't need to pay attention to it and can focus on the content instead. But when it changes, it attracts attention for as long as it takes to changes one's long-term-memory of it.

I haven't done any studies on it, but it wouldn't surprise me if those who hate these sorts of changes the most are also the ones with the best long-term memory and observational skills.

Re:Firefox 94 has No Visible Border on unfocused tabs by shakna on Monday November 15, 2021 @09:59PM (#29236218)
It's actually a case of the opposite of eagle eyed - it's a case of being partially vision impaired which means that things are now harder to grasp as quickly, increasing cognitive load.
Re:Firefox 94 has No Visible Border on unfocused tabs by jonnycomputer on Monday November 15, 2021 @11:08PM (#29236692)
Exactly that.
Re:Firefox 94 has No Visible Border on unfocused tabs by rgrmrts on Monday November 15, 2021 @08:10PM (#29235328)
I wouldn’t say I love constant change. I think the tool is better and more functional now. It’s more consistent and less distracting.
Re:Firefox 94 has No Visible Border on unfocused tabs by pseudalopex on Monday November 15, 2021 @09:10PM (#29235854)
How are the new tabs more consistent?
Re:Firefox 94 has No Visible Border on unfocused tabs by Barrin92 on Monday November 15, 2021 @09:42PM (#29236090)
there's a pretty clear trend towards flatter, cleaner design with more space both within Firefox and other software. Whether you approve of it or not, it's hard to argue that the changes to the Firefox UI including the tabs don't make it look more like modern UIs in general. Be that Windows or Gnome, or web-based desktop apps etc...
Re:Firefox 94 has No Visible Border on unfocused tabs by josefx on Monday November 15, 2021 @09:54PM (#29236185)
> cleaner design with more space

Why would I want the UI to take up more space? I am using it as a browser, most of the space should be available for the page I "browse" or serve as an efficient way to navigate pages.

> don't make it look more like modern UIs

If making something look more modern is the goal just take a dump in the middle of an art gallery, that is plenty of modern and about as functional.

> Be that Windows or Gnome

Edge still has proper tabs, so are you just making shit up now?

Re:Firefox 94 has No Visible Border on unfocused tabs by Barrin92 on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @02:24AM (#29237836)
>Why would I want the UI to take up more space?

I don't care what you want, that wasn't the question. The question was how it is consistent. Preferences are notoriously subjective, plenty of people like less clutter, it tends to make things more readable.

>Edge still has proper tabs, so are you just making shit up now?

On my machine in edge and chrome both unfocussed tabs are flat and divided by like a 1 pixel grey-ish divider or something. I can't really tell much of a difference between that and firefox.

Re:Firefox 94 has No Visible Border on unfocused tabs by josefx on Tuesday November 16, 2021 @04:11AM (#29238490)
On my system Firefox tabs are only divided by space, there is no obvious "this tab ends here". I would prefer the one pixel wide divider "or something".

The active tab looks like a button, it has no connection to the content at all, while on edge I still have a clear connection. That might just trigger an ingrained mental "fuck another incomplete UI framework" response in me, it looks wrong and that the tabs actually still behave like tabs is more surprising than expected, why would anyone expect a button to behave like a tab?

Last point, as the new tab style takes up more space than the old style I had it disabled. Of course that didn't work long but somehow the option still fucked up highlighting of the active tab. With that fixed it is at least slightly lighter gray on light gray instead of just light gray for all. Still missing an option to fix that waste of space.

> The question was how it is consistent.

Then why does it take up more space then the bookmarks? Both are just an Icon with a line of text. Hah, just comparing both lists in the UI makes it clear that consistency is not something Firefox devs. have ever heard of. Note: This is not meant as a request at the Firefox designers to fuck up the bookmarks.

Re:Firefox 94 has No Visible Border on unfocused tabs by pseudalopex on Monday November 15, 2021 @09:51PM (#29236166)
The new tabs look less like tabs in Chrome or any other app.
Re:Firefox 94 has No Visible Border on unfocused tabs by rgrmrts on Monday November 15, 2021 @09:16PM (#29235896)
Not really the new tab look, but menu bars and other interface elements are more consistent now. Things like the settings hamburger and the “allow mic/camera” popup. There are still some elements that lack a consistent look and feel (I’m personally not the biggest fan of the search on page bottom bar and prefer how Chrome does it).
Re:Firefox 94 has No Visible Border on unfocused tabs by pseudalopex on Monday November 15, 2021 @09:46PM (#29236126)
The menus are less consistent with other apps now. I guess removing all color from other elements made things more consistent in a way.
Re:Firefox 94 has No Visible Border on unfocused tabs by Fnoord on Monday November 15, 2021 @08:59PM (#29235764)
I take it you run ESR then :-)
Re:Firefox 94 has No Visible Border on unfocused tabs by userbinator on Monday November 15, 2021 @09:49PM (#29236150)
Correct! That and a few CSS rules to reduce the excessive amount of space even there.