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Re:Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated by gruez on Monday November 15, 2021 @10:26AM (#29228483)
> However, if nothing happens on the Bitcoin network, then the funds aren't locked down, are they?

they are locked down. the funds in a lightning channel are locked in a 2 of 2 multisig address, and can only be moved upon mutual consent (ie. by updating the state of the channel), or by one party after sufficient time has passed (in case of an uncooperative peer).

Re:Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated by PKop on Monday November 15, 2021 @03:35PM (#29232342)
What do these LN dynamics (which seem to have existed for a little while already now) have to do with Taproot?

OP was describing something in the context of Taproot and now you and others are talking about Lightning. What is the new development here?

Re:Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated by G3rn0ti on Monday November 15, 2021 @05:05PM (#29233443)
Roughly, Taproot will make Lightning Transactions much more efficient and indistinguishable from simple transactions by introducing a new „Pay-To-Taproot“ validation type.

https://blog.chainalysis.com/reports/bitcoin-taproot-upgrade

Re:Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated by louloulou on Monday November 15, 2021 @05:01PM (#29233404)
Lightning channel opens/closes are 2-of-2 multisig transactions. Taproot would make them indistinguishable from singlesig transactions.
Re:Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated by pkulak on Monday November 15, 2021 @04:27PM (#29232997)
Whoa now, how did we start talking about lightning? Has it been lightning all the time? Because that's always supported instant, near-free transactions (with a _bunch_ of problems too, that I'll not worry about).
Re:Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated by kordlessagain on Monday November 15, 2021 @05:54PM (#29234026)
> In parallel to that, we plan to use Taproot’s new “tapleaf” script versioning scheme to implement Simplicity, our upcoming blockchain programming language.

https://medium.com/blockstream/taproot-activation-enhanced-t...

Re:Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated by tgb on Monday November 15, 2021 @03:29PM (#29232278)
Does this stop a double spend?
Re:Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated by gruez on Monday November 15, 2021 @03:42PM (#29232432)
Yes, why wouldn't it? The funds are locked in a 2 of 2 multisig address.
Re:Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated by tgb on Monday November 15, 2021 @04:21PM (#29232927)
I'm confused then, doesn't this still need one transaction in the block chain for every transaction?
Re:Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated by HashBasher on Monday November 15, 2021 @04:45PM (#29233206)
No, the transaction is fully signed and can be broadcast at any time by either party to settle. It doesn't have to be broadcasted and further transactions can be done on top and they just keep it private between themselves.
Re:Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated by tgb on Monday November 15, 2021 @05:33PM (#29233782)
I'm missing how you can have a transaction that is not broadcasted but that prevents a double spend. Can't I give two different people signed transactions for the same bitcoins? How could the second recipient know I've already spent the balance on the first? Apologies for the no-doubt naive questions, it just sounds impossible.
Re:Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated by jallen_dot_dev on Monday November 15, 2021 @07:50PM (#29235128)
There would first be 1 broadcasted on-chain transaction setting up the channel, with X of my bitcoin and Y of your bitcoin being locked up. This prevents double spend. Then, you and I pass n signed transactions between each other updating our balances Xt & Yt for each t, t+1, ...t+n. At any time, either one of us can broadcast the final transaction with the most up to date balance and unlock the coins.
Re:Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated by tgb on Monday November 15, 2021 @09:31PM (#29236006)
So it requires one on-chain transaction per pair of parties instead of one per transaction? Clever and I suppose useful but seems a little limited in use, given that the funds are locked the whole time. Good for two parties that frequently have transactions going in both directions?
Re:Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated by jallen_dot_dev on Monday November 15, 2021 @09:43PM (#29236102)
That's right. You can also form a chain of these channels, so Alice can pay Bob even though she doesn't have a channel with him, if they both connect to Carol using atomic transactions that update the 2 channels accordingly.
Re:Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated by Jeff_Brown on Monday November 15, 2021 @05:51PM (#29233989)
Is it that the not-on-the-Bitcoin-blokchain account gets updated on a separate "layer 2" Blockchain that's cheaper? If so, why would that second chain stay cheaper?
Re:Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated by danlugo92 on Monday November 15, 2021 @09:07PM (#29235830)
Lightning transactions are all final and irreversible via cryptography mechanisms.
Re:Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated by danlugo92 on Monday November 15, 2021 @09:01PM (#29235784)
Theres a timelock enforced by the blockchain.
Re:Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated by zaptrem on Monday November 15, 2021 @12:04PM (#29229615)
Don't LN channels require a (quite expensive) transaction to open and close?
Re:Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated by gruez on Monday November 15, 2021 @12:43PM (#29230098)
>quite expensive

Are you talking about compared to regular transactions, or because network fees (per byte) are high?

Re:Taproot, Bitcoin’s long-anticipated upgrade, has activated by jimmydorry on Monday November 15, 2021 @07:50PM (#29235129)
Quite expensive, as in $1?

That $1 enables as many transactions as you want between party A and B, of which party B may have dozens of open channels with other nodes to facilitate routing from party A to C etc.