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Re:Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure by 8ytecoder on Saturday November 13, 2021 @01:10AM (#29207836)
It a uniquely American stupidity that somehow everyone just lives with. The concept of overdraft doesn’t even exist in normal consumer accounts anywhere else in the world. The first thing I do when I open an account here is to disable overdraft - but then you have to pay return cheque charges by whoever was trying to charge your account.
Re:Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure by jon-wood on Saturday November 13, 2021 @06:27AM (#29209071)
Overdrafts are very much a thing in the UK, most accounts allow it, but you have to request it in advance. In effect they work like a pre-approved loan, which at least when I was working badly paid jobs and needed food right up before payday was a very welcome feature.
Re:Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure by another-dave on Saturday November 13, 2021 @05:02PM (#29213567)
With both HSBC and RBS if I didn't have an overdraft in advance they just hit me with an even larger "unapproved overdraft fee" — both refused to disable overdrafts & just bounce the payment instead
Re:Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure by jlmorton on Saturday November 13, 2021 @02:43AM (#29208166)
The history is that people used to write paper checks, and merchants would charge a bounced check fee. Overdraft _protection_ was actually a banking feature which would save you from the cost and embarrassment of a bounced check.

There is very nearly zero usefulness to overdraft protection in a real-time authorization world. Nobody charges a fee for a rejected debit authorization.

I suppose merchants might charge a return check fee for a failed ACH payment, but nobody uses ACH payments for anything routine in the US.

Re:Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure by kgermino on Saturday November 13, 2021 @09:10AM (#29209828)
> nobody uses ACH payments for anything routine in the US.

Water bill, electric bill, mortgage, and property taxes are all ACH for me. Many people pay rent that way. I don’t think it’s commonly used for day to day interactions but a lot of payments are still ACH

Re:Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure by rootusrootus on Saturday November 13, 2021 @10:21AM (#29210344)
The latest thing I've noticed is that if you attempt to debit, say, $100 from an account that has only $95, it will successfully debit $95 and then the POS equipment will show that you still need to find some other way to pay the remaining balance. Used to be in this situation it would just be rejected outright.

It's more handy for gas pumps, but less transparent. It stops before your tank is completely filled, but doesn't say why. You can hear the difference if you are standing there while it fills, of course, but other than that you may be confused why it slowed down and stopped exactly at a certain amount and won't go any farther.

Re:Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure by JoBrad on Saturday November 13, 2021 @10:28AM (#29210396)
Consumers don’t use ACH for very much. Businesses utilize ACH a lot, because despite the additional time lag, it’s free.
Re:Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure by t0mas88 on Saturday November 13, 2021 @05:20PM (#29213674)
Netherlands has overdraft if you request it, otherwise the payment would fail / card declined. But we don't have overdraft fees, that's the weird American thing that caused all those crazy optimizations like reordering transactions.

The way it works in NL is you pay a (high like a creditcard) interest rate for every day the account is below zero. The transaction order doesn't matter it looks at the balance at the end of the day and charges you 1/365th of 13% interest.

The only way banks fuck you over in this system is with the dates. Using a card means a transaction date of "today", getting paid almost always has transaction date tomorrow. So you end up paying 1 day of interest. Much less than a $ 40 overdraft fee and regardless of the number of transactions.

Re:Debit cards are hidden financial infrastructure by throwaway8689 on Saturday November 13, 2021 @06:02AM (#29208967)
We have exactly this concept in normal consumer accounts in the UK. It is not uniquely American.