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Re:Gmail’s fake loading indicator (2020) by jraph on Thursday November 11, 2021 @02:45AM (#29185470)
> What about downloading 70 MB of compressed binary code for Thunderbird?

You do it only once, do not risk having to do it when being on a metered or spotty connection because your cache is not warm or the webmail got yet another update, which can happen at any time. You can apply Thunderbird updates when you are on a good connection.

You can access your mails offline, you don't re-download them each time you open them. It's faster, even on a good connection.

> configure

The configuration part for most providers is essentially typing one's email address and password, so there is not much to say.

> allow unlimited access to your computer

That is why I am reluctant to run non-free software, but Thunderbird is free, I can reasonably trust it. Especially the version packaged by my OS vendor. I agree a better isolation for native desktop apps may be desirable though.

Re:Gmail’s fake loading indicator (2020) by vbezhenar on Thursday November 11, 2021 @03:06AM (#29185603)
> You do it only once

I just checked and my second gmail login downloaded 500 KB before it became usable. Browser allows for caching of downloaded code.

> do not risk having to do it when being on a metered or spotty connection because your cache is not warm or the webmail got yet another update, which can happen at any time. You can apply Thunderbird updates when you are on a good connection.

I agree with your point. I think that it's possible to implement a separate update for web apps with explicit request, but it's rarely done and unusual for web.

> You can access your mails offline, you don't re-download them each time you open them. It's faster, even on a good connection.

Web browser allows for local storage and offline work which could be utilized for those features. You can enable offline mode in Gmail. I just checked, it works.

Re:Gmail’s fake loading indicator (2020) by jraph on Thursday November 11, 2021 @03:17AM (#29185685)
> I just checked and my second gmail login downloaded 500 KB before it became usable

Sure, but tomorrow? This afternoon?

500 KB is 1-2 seconds on the connection I'm currently using (not at home right know). It's 4-5 seconds on the train to get there… in the sections were connectivity is available. 500 KB is huge. That's 1% of my previous monthly mobile data plan.

I think we should revisit our idea of what amount of data is fine to do anything on the web today. Data transfer is not free, it needs infrastructure and electricity.

500 KB should be the amount of data to download for getting the full web application with cold caches, tops. Can you imagine the number of instructions you can fit in 500 KB of code, especially high level? I can't.

> Web browser allows for local storage and offline work which could be utilized for those features. You can enable offline mode in Gmail. I just checked, it works.

I guess, but I don't trust this. And as a web developer, I am well aware that local storage is limited in size and there is no way my gigabytes of mails are going to fit.

Re:Gmail’s fake loading indicator (2020) by green-eclipse on Thursday November 11, 2021 @09:45AM (#29188331)
There is a basic HTML version of Gmail for slower connection speeds or folks wanting to use less data.

https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/151823/how-to-se...

Re:Gmail’s fake loading indicator (2020) by still_grokking on Thursday November 11, 2021 @01:55PM (#29191589)
500 KB is huge. That's so true.

Compare to the mutt package, a fully features mail client, weighting in at ~1.8 MiB — without the need for an additional gigantic runtime.

I'm not saying mutt is an alternative to GMail for most people. But just to give some feeling for the size relations here.

Re:Gmail’s fake loading indicator (2020) by green-eclipse on Thursday November 11, 2021 @09:52AM (#29188405)
Is it true that you only need to download Thunderbird once? Don't you need to download new versions? Security updates?

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/known-vulnerabilities...

Re:Gmail’s fake loading indicator (2020) by jraph on Friday November 12, 2021 @09:27AM (#29199541)
re-read my comment
Re:Gmail’s fake loading indicator (2020) by johnisgood on Thursday November 11, 2021 @02:53AM (#29185525)
You can also firejail programs on Linux and so forth.