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Re:XMPP: Admin-in-the-middle by lmm on Thursday November 04, 2021 @05:20AM (#29104940)
I think that bit of history shows what a false idol extensibility is. 20 years of extension and improvement has resulted in a chat system that is still staggeringly worse in practice than its competitors of 20 years ago. (Seriously, XMPP is still worse than AIM for actual day-to-day use).

Look at XML vs JSON for another example. A simple standard that has no improvement path except completely replacing it turns out to be much more usable than an extensible, upgradeable standard.

Re:XMPP: Admin-in-the-middle by topdancing on Thursday November 04, 2021 @05:40AM (#29105091)
> Seriously, XMPP is still worse than AIM for actual day-to-day use

Have you actually tried the modern clients like Conversations/Dino? I've been running a private XMPP server for friends for the past couple of years and the only way to describe it is rock-solid.

Re:XMPP: Admin-in-the-middle by lmm on Thursday November 04, 2021 @10:41PM (#29114910)
I tried Conversations (admittedly a while ago) and found it a solid meh. Its features mostly worked, but it definitely felt clunkier than AIM.
Re:XMPP: Admin-in-the-middle by gefhfff on Thursday November 04, 2021 @08:14AM (#29106149)
Have you actually tried any alternatives at all?

Even Matrix with Element (which used to have quite a few issues with slowness and encryption), works way better these days

Not to mention any widely used centralized messenger...

Re:XMPP: Admin-in-the-middle by topdancing on Thursday November 04, 2021 @10:16AM (#29107464)
Yes, in addition to my private XMPP server, I have been running a Matrix server for one of my clients for about the same amount of time.

Element desktop is... slow and terrible in comparison with all of its confusing options, and regularly kicks just a single person off the server for no apparent reason when their session becomes corrupted. I really want to use fractal but it doesn't do E2EE.

Synapse was a horrible resource hog, but conduit actually seems pretty good. Still prefer ejabberd.

Re:XMPP: Admin-in-the-middle by southerntofu on Thursday November 04, 2021 @05:45AM (#29105122)
> XMPP is still worse than AIM for actual day-to-day use

Care to elaborate? I used AIM back in the day and i have a much more pleasant and varied experience on modern XMPP, which supports many gateways to the networks i care for (including mobile phone like skype was doing! [0]).

> XML vs JSON

And yet the people who claimed XML was too complex have since then reimplemented the XML features into JSON, such as JSON schemas which are key to federated protocols (eg. ActivityPub) built on top of JSON message passing.

[0] https://jmp.chat/