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Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by busymom0 on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @05:13PM (#29100345)
Kids have the most psychological development from looking at people's faces, emotions and smiles. Saying that's a "minor inconvenience" is silly. Especially since there's negligible risks for them.

And mandating something which neither prevents catching, nor transmitting the virus is definitely not a "minor inconvenience".

EDIT: In my last sentence, I wasn't referring to masks. I was referring to vaccine mandates which the truck driver also ran on.

Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by davidw on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @05:15PM (#29100356)
> And mandating something which neither prevents catching, nor transmitting the virus is definitely not a "minor inconvenience".

They have studied this though. Actual scientists, not people on Youtube or Facebook, and they have found that masks diminish the transmission of COVID-19. This is kind of what you'd expect with something airborne.

Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by clarge1120 on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @05:31PM (#29100565)
The risk from infection is small enough to be considered zero. There is no reason to mask the children.
Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by tehjoker on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @06:11PM (#29101041)
Explain that to the kids that died or the older relatives that got sick from the infected kids.
Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by busymom0 on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @06:25PM (#29101231)
> Explain that to the kids that died

At least 9 out of 10 children in the ICUs in North Carolina were obese.

https://www.wfae.org/health/2021-09-30/novant-says-9-of-10-c...

The iron-fisted one-size-fits-all approach has never been used in medicine and health except COVID.

Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by tehjoker on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @06:51PM (#29101514)
Nice of you to discard anyone with a health problem.
Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by chiefalchemist on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @07:23PM (#29101828)
Perhaps. But if such conditions increase risk why is the government reluctant to promote that fact? What is gained in the lack of honesty and transparency?

Along the same lines, ingoring this differentiator has allowed the gov the take a heavy handed on size fits all approach. If the risk is targeted, why is the loss of rights applied to everyone?

Finally, this approach is now being used to jab the kids.

That isn't justice. In fact - whether anyone agrees or disagree s - it smells like textbook authoritarianism. In that context, we are all discarded.

Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by tehjoker on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @10:17PM (#29102982)
Huge numbers of people have at least one co-morbidity. The number of perfectly healthy people is probably a minority of the country. The number of co-morbidity rises with declining income and dangerousness of work.

So all the bushiness owners and fancy lad writers, managers, programmers, and other white collars are better positioned to withstand the pandemic with virtually every advantage in both isolation and physical health. All those guys that eat shit because they don't have money or time and burn themselves out physically working hard get to die.

In a slightly different category of person, it's morbidly fascinating watching unvaccinated people on twitter note their buddy just died and say they had comorbidities with a profile pic that shows them to be obese.

In this case, we have to judge whether the petty authoritarianism of those that spread illness and death vs the government pushing everyone to help stop that with, at this point, a fairly convincingly safe vaccine.

Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by irthomasthomas on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @06:17PM (#29101121)
"Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%" (For medical professionals)

https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/5/4/e006577.long

Why does everyone promote cloth masks, instead of proper N95 masks?

Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by davidw on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @06:22PM (#29101200)
In Italy (we visited relatives this summer), everyone was wearing surgical masks, with some N95 here and there. No one had cloth masks. Surgical masks are cheap and easy to make and a country as wealthy as the US could ensure that everyone has an ample supply. We could probably even do that with N95's at this point.
Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by irthomasthomas on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @06:38PM (#29101372)
Surgical masks are cloth masks.
Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by rayiner on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @05:27PM (#29100496)
By how much, and is it worth it? The first is a scientific question. The second is a political question. Americans fail because neither side recognizes the difference.

Other developed countries are not masking kids as young as we are doing. Countries like France are rescinding mask mandates now. For us, there is no end in sight, even in highly vaccinated areas.

Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by davidw on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @05:29PM (#29100526)
We went to Italy over the summer, and mask usage was ubiquitous. Nothing fancy, just the basic surgical ones. They are required in schools there because children come into contact with adults.

"Is it worth it" is an ongoing question; at some point, it's probably not, but we're not there just yet. Our vaccination rates are still pretty low. And remember: the bellowing about masks started before we even had vaccines.

Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by b9a2cab5 on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @06:05PM (#29100967)
"we're not there just yet" is a political decision, not a scientific one.
Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by davidw on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @06:13PM (#29101075)
Yes, but it can be based on more objective statistics though, like the local hospital being overrun with COVID patients, as ours was over the summer.
Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by PKop on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @07:19PM (#29101798)
It is a political decision to weigh all the various and multiple "facts" and make a value judgement involving tradeoffs of which interests are prioritized and which are subordinated.

It is a political and value judgement to err on the side of minuscule improvement, if any at all, from wearing masks and mandating vaccines for cohorts that statistically don't need to worry about covid, while degrading the social development of children, and hurting the wider economic interests of people affected by endless restrictions. These are all political questions. There are no all encompassing "facts" that delineate who is harmed and who is helped and in what proportions. That is the realm of politics.

Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by rkk3 on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @06:19PM (#29101153)
> Our vaccination rates are still pretty low

Not really, 221 Million have had it-least 1 shot in the US and another 73 Million are under 18 and are at almost no risk (558 total deaths).

Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by busymom0 on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @06:09PM (#29101033)
I wasn't referring to masks in that statement. I was referring to vaccine mandates.
Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by PKop on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @05:19PM (#29100404)
Blocking the faces of children in the prime of their life, where they need to develop social skills through interaction and facial expression, is madness.

The covid risk for children is a rounding error. This is not prudent risk management; mind-boggling for someone from the tech industry who should be able to do a cursory look at statistics and dismiss this practice out of hand.

Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by generalk on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @05:50PM (#29100777)

  > Blocking the faces of children in the prime of their 
  > life, where they need to develop social skills through 
  > interaction and facial expression, is madness.
[Citation needed.] I am unable to find a single reliable source that says mask wearing has any sociological or psychological effect on children or anyone else. Anecdotally, I haven't seen anything like that. Just typical kids.

  > The covid risk for children is a rounding error.
Again, who says that's true? Can't find it. The Ohio Department of Health maintains a dashboard[1] for this, which indicates that it's significant enough to track, and the numbers there sure aren't "rounding error" numbers.

Assuming what you meant is "children are less likely to develop severe symptoms," and also that that's true: they can still spread the virus to the adults they live with in their homes, or the many adults that share the school building they're in. (Did you think we just shove kids in an adult-less environment, or that teachers are somehow immune?)

[1]: https://coronavirus.ohio.gov/wps/portal/gov/covid-19/dashboa...

Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by PKop on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @07:41PM (#29101978)
You're only saying that you don't care about the detrimental effects of masking children or disrupting normal education processes, because adults will have some minor unspecified improvement on their rate of catching covid. Ok.

I disagree that it's worth harming kids development to attempt to avoid spreading a coronavirus that is becoming endemic, will always be around, and whose spread can't be stopped. Not worth it.

Ohio total covid deaths: 24,763

Ohio total 18 and under covid deaths: 12

Ohio total 18 and under population (2019): 2,578,019

If this isn't a rounding error, what is?

Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by busymom0 on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @06:17PM (#29101119)
> I am unable to find a single reliable source that says mask wearing has any sociological or psychological effect on children or anyone else.

You are looking for the wrong thing. Look for what the benefits of things like smiling and seeing smiling faces has on people's emotional health.

> A happy face signals positive emotions, as well as attachment availability, care, support, and credibility [7,8,9]. Recently, Tamir and Hughes [10] argued that positive social signals such as smiling faces not only serve ultimate goals (e.g., forming strong bonds) but they are also rewarding in and off themselves.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6356968/

https://www.healthline.com/health/baby/when-will-my-baby-smi...

Hiding the main part of your face - the smile is not healthy for people, and especially not for kids whose entire social skills development heavily relies on these things.

Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by wrycoder on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @05:51PM (#29100788)
I see maskless parents shepherding their masked small children around. The kids are obviously self conscious about the masks, and at the same time, they appear to be proud to wear them.
Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by busymom0 on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @06:12PM (#29101067)
> they appear to be proud to wear them

Being proud to be "obedient" is not always a good thing. Also this cannot be generalized. Plus it doesn't make something being mandatory right, especially when looking at people's smiles is crucial for kids development.

Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by wrycoder on Thursday November 04, 2021 @09:45AM (#29107097)
I don't mean to suggest that it's right, or even mandatory.

What I'm observing is that peculiar mix of self consciousness, smugness, and pride you sometimes see in young children, when they believe they are acting morally.

I'm not using quite the right words here - the emotions I'm listing are more mature. But the same emotions exist in children, just not fully matured.

Since the parents were maskless, I think the kids wanted to wear theirs because they've been taught at school that it's the right thing to do. The ones I observed appeared to be around eight years old.

Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by vadfa on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @06:13PM (#29101083)
Kids are proud to wear something that makes it harder for them to breathe and recognise the emotions of others? Give me a break...
Re:Truck driver leads NJ Senate president after spending $15... by skinnymuch on Wednesday November 03, 2021 @11:34PM (#29103445)
Darn so blind or other kids with bad vision don’t get most psychological development? Are we doing anything about this? It has to be a major crisis for all those people to grow up with stunted psychological development.