I live in the USA, this year we both sold our previous home and purchased our new home without the use of signage, open houses, tours, realtors, etc. We found the house we bought and found the buyers of our old house through our network of friends. We filled out all the paperwork from forms we printed off online. The title company took care of everything after that. It was all done completely online until the very last signing. At that signing the title company person told us that they are almost ready to have everything completely done online so that nobody ever has to meet in person. So, shortly it will be possible to completely buy and sell a house without ever meeting in person. At the time I was just thinking about how easy and convenient it all was (and how much money we saved by not having realtors), but now I’m wondering about the fraud aspects.

> I live in the USA, this year we both sold our previous home and purchased our new home without the use of signage, open houses, tours, realtors, etc. We found the house we bought and found the buyers of our old house through our network of friends. We filled out all the paperwork from forms we printed off online.

Surely you left a massive amount of money on the table then, right?

> Surely you left a massive amount of money on the table then, right?

s/surely/potentially/

They may have been better off also. At least the agent commissions are saved, and maybe other costs. If the buyer is motivated to buy, who knows if they weren't already over market?

Sounds like they avoided the 4-7% realtor commissions.

Yeah, here in the UK one of my friends bought his home off another of my friends. A third friend practices commercial property law, so she's insured to buy and sell property and did all their paperwork at mates rates. (Her employer buys her insurance, but it's personal insurance, so it covers her off-the-clock work too)

Big saving all round.

I laughed at an old fashioned estate agent who wanted 1.2% to sell my house. Realtor prices in the US seem shockingly excessive. I guess it explains how Modern Family live such a nice lifestyle I guess.

In what way? We sat down and decided how much we wanted for our house and told the potential buyers how much. They thought about it for a day and then told us they would give us that much money for the house. Maybe we could have made more on the open market, but we were happy and they were happy.

> Maybe we could have made more on the open market, but we were happy and they were happy.

That's my point. You could potentially have made a lot more money on the open market. Especially if the buyers didn't even try to negotiate. That usually means they would pay more (let alone what other buyers might pay).

The value of your house is what people are willing to pay for it, not what you think it's worth or what you want for it.

I don’t understand your point. We are happy with what we sold our house for. Would more money make us happier? No.

Sure, but you've invalidated the argument with your own example - there was a personal link. In this case, it seems to have been a complete stranger given the"seller" was an imposter.

In the UK there's no requirement that 'For Sale' signs be put up. Very few people look for a house to buy by driving around looking for such signs - online listings are what drive the traffic these days, and you can sell a house with nothing but online listings.

Of course, most buyers will want to see the house themselves before making an offer, as estate agents are famously creative in their property descriptions. If you're getting a mortgage to buy a house, the bank will generally insist on a 'survey' where an independent third party turns up and confirms that the building physically exists and suchlike.

Fair enough about the sign, but what about showing the property or a home inspection (which usually takes several hours)?

Off market sales are not unheard of in the USA -- my neighbor's condo was sold off-market. They were talking to a realtor to prepare to sell, and the realtor put them into touch with a buyer that paid cash for higher than they planned to list it at. So it's completely possible for a home to sell without neighbors being aware of it.

Also, in my experience, many homes are listed on the realtors MLS systems before they hit public sites like Zillow.

I bought my house right after it was listed on my realtors MLS system -- I had already made an offer before it ever hit Zillow or before there was a For Sale sign in the yard.

Not sure whether they will ever find the link. Regarding signs etc. it sounds like the owner worked away so maybe the neighbours just assumed that he was selling?

In the UK, it is very much a paperwork exercise, I have never met any of the solicitors I have sold houses with, haven't even spoken to most of them (everything on email)

Selling for below market rate would probably help things a lot.