Re:Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air (Revised, Communit...
by marcosdumay on Sunday October 31, 2021 @12:40PM
(#29058233)
> Okay, but GP's point was that these bigger turbines need to be spaced further apart instead, so we can place fewer of them.
What will be a problem if our energy consumption increases by an order of magnitude or two, and we take all of it from the wind. Currently, the entire question is about financial ROI.
> but were they ever placed so close together that you couldn't have farmland in between turbines?
Not since the modern turbines were invented. The first ones were placed in somewhat compact lines, with enough spacing between the turbine lines that you could raise a few lines of any crop. (The lines can't be too close anyway, as that would reduce the turbine efficiency and harm financial ROI.)
Re:Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air (Revised, Communit...
by 7952 on Sunday October 31, 2021 @01:09PM
(#29058454)
But why is it important to optimise MW per km2? Seems like premature optimization of something that is not the bottleneck.
Re:Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air (Revised, Communit...
by tinco on Sunday October 31, 2021 @08:37PM
(#29061918)
The goal of the book is not to find quick wins in reducing CO2 output, the goal is to give a complete overview over what is necessary to achieve carbon neutrality. And MW/km2 might be a bottleneck if we're to replace all oil & gas with electric power. If you read the book you can actually see what percentage of the seas around the UK would have to be fully covered, to achieve carbon neutrality. If that number really is outdated by an order of magnitude, perhaps MW/km2 is not a bottleneck.
Re:Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air (Revised, Communit...
by 7952 on Tuesday November 02, 2021 @04:16AM
(#29078409)
Thinking about land required is more familiar to the public. But it does lead to these broad statements about feasibility that don't necessarily match up with reality. Real schemes are just going to be more complex and will look at lots of different factors. There is always a limited funds and you have to pick the best opportunities. That is true of very long running projects like nuclear also. Different sites will have different grid connections, environmental factors, ground conditions, access routes, labour force etc.
Re:Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air (Revised, Communit...
by lucb1e on Sunday October 31, 2021 @02:33PM
(#29059167)
Because we have trouble finding spots where people don't already live and file complaints to prevent them being built near them? At least on-shore; off-shore is more expensive. If we can get more MW per km² then we can have more power with less trouble.
Re:Sustainable Energy without the Hot Air (Revised, Communit...
by adgjlsfhk1 on Sunday October 31, 2021 @10:07PM
(#29062398)
off shore is more expensive, but it generally has better wind which can balance that out a bit.
Okay, but GP's point was that these bigger turbines need to be spaced further apart instead, so we can place fewer of them. That we could build bigger turbines was not in question I think. Do you happen to know whether the MW per km² increased more than the 30% expected amount that GP cited?
And regarding doing things between the turbines, I wasn't "awake" yet in 2006 so I don't remember how it was then, but were they ever placed so close together that you couldn't have farmland in between turbines? The problem seems to be that people don't want to live near them and find nature filled with wind turbines ugly, not so much that you can't do anything else in between.
(Just to note, I don't find them that ugly (even if, of course, nature would be prettier without them... but that's not an option) and I also didn't find them to be very loud when I visited some nearby wind turbines. Perhaps it's different at night when it's all quiet, but personally I don't think I'd mind living next to one. The blades are a bit scary though, I can't help but imagine the consequences if one of them lets loose... but that's like being afraid of air travel I guess.)