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Re:The Self-Isolation of the American Left by taylodl on Friday October 29, 2021 @10:08AM (#29038550)
I would argue the Civil War put the nail in the coffin of the Jeffersonian model. The 14th amendment buried the coffin. That's been over 150 years ago, in our "tween years" so to speak. The United States has spent the overwhelming majority of its lifetime under our current model. What I find ironic is the Right abhors Freedom - they don't like people having the freedom to marry whomever they want, they don't like people having the freedom to have sex with whomever they want, and they don't like people having the freedom to be whomever they want. Those are profound freedoms to argue so vehemently against.

When you step back you realize it's not even a "small government" vs. "big government" thing - both sides want a big government. To me it appears the right wants a theocracy and the left wants a secular government. Which means, ironically, it's an argument over religion. Which is supposed to be one of our freedoms, but here we are.

Re:The Self-Isolation of the American Left by Clubber on Friday October 29, 2021 @10:11AM (#29038600)
>I would argue the Civil War put the nail in the coffin of the Jeffersonian model.

I would think the Civil War certainly started the move from Jeffersonian to Hamiltonian, but that is one of the oldest arguments of the design of the country (thus why each theory is given its father's name.). I think the pendulum moved back towards Jeffersonianism after reconstruction. I've heard the Civil War called essentially the prototype of the world wars, and I can see that. I feel WWI really started the movement back towards Hamtonianism with Wilson in earnest. It's been a long road though.

>is the Right abhors Freedom

I would argue both political parties abhor freedom, it's just different freedoms. To only see (or support) one party curtailing freedoms while ignoring the other really supports that system. Political parties weren't in the original design and cropped up as a power grab during Washington's administration. They've hijacked power ever since.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Washington%27s_Farewell...

Re:The Self-Isolation of the American Left by taylodl on Friday October 29, 2021 @10:42AM (#29039018)
> I would argue both political parties abhor freedom

Agree with you 100% there! It's just one of the parties claims to be the party of patriots and freedom - and they're not. Meanwhile, neither party can claim they're the party of freedom. As you pointed out, there are some freedoms each party supports and others they suppress. It just goes to show that freedom is still a terrifying concept to the political class!