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Re:Oil System Collapsing So Fast It May Derail Renewables by consumer451 on Thursday October 21, 2021 @04:39PM (#28950543)
The proven way to reduce population growth is via economic growth. It has worked everywhere it has been applied.

We should be carpet bombing Africa with books, higher-ed, and investment.

No genocide necessary.

The only problem with this plan is that it is far too boring/liberal/naive for a significant portion of decision makers.

Re:Oil System Collapsing So Fast It May Derail Renewables by Factorium on Thursday October 21, 2021 @04:58PM (#28950772)
We don't have the global resources or time to support mass industrialisation of Africa (1 billion people projected to go to 4 billion by 2100).

Its unclear if that's even possible given that some of these societies face serious issues in terms of equality for women, value of education, fair application of law, systematic corruption and tribalism, etc. Many of these problems are imbued in the religious/cultural bedrock of those places.

Look at what has happened in Afghanistan where after 20 years of Western intervention, the country has reset to its 'default' almost overnight.

We should view the level of development in Europe, NA, East Asia as the exception to the human condition, not the norm.

We need to just skip to the end game: education for women, contraception, abortion, incentives for having zero/one child, no food aid.

Re:Oil System Collapsing So Fast It May Derail Renewables by consumer451 on Thursday October 21, 2021 @05:31PM (#28951066)
> Look at what has happened in Afghanistan where after 20 years of Western intervention, the country has reset to its 'default' almost overnight.

Unfortunately The Project For a New American Century did not include Predator drones armed with Kindles preloaded with Wikipedia.

I realize I am over simplifying this here, but Afghanistan was mostly a DOD project when it should have been State.

> We need to just skip to the end game: education for women, contraception, abortion ...

I can agree with this.

> incentives for having zero/one child,

This appears to be built-in to education and economic growth.

> no food aid.

I assume you mean the aid-based long term plans, which have proven problematic. Famine aid should be given in my opinion.

Re:Oil System Collapsing So Fast It May Derail Renewables by ClumsyPilot on Thursday October 21, 2021 @09:15PM (#28952739)
"societies face serious issues in terms of equality for women, value of education, fair application of law, systematic corruption and tribalism"

You know why South Korea is prosperous? It recieved more in development aid than all of africa combined

Currently only China is really investing in Africa. While issues you highlighted are serious, these countries were treated very unfairly economically. Do you know what it's like trying to trade with a western megacorp as an african farmer? Can you imagine what its like trying to get a loan to open a business?

Re:Oil System Collapsing So Fast It May Derail Renewables by toomuchtodo on Thursday October 21, 2021 @04:53PM (#28950715)
> The proven way to reduce population growth is via economic growth. It has worked everywhere it has been applied.

After observing the impact the biosphere has experienced with developed countries and developing countries industrializing, do you believe it will support the same for another 4 billion people? My evidence that it will not is enumerated below.

I would agree that policies that help African women become as empowered and wealthy as fast as possible (which reduces the total number of children had [1]) would be the key to success, if done in a manner that does not increase per capita GHG emissions, meat consumption, and all the other negative impacts of per capita wealth growth. If Africa gets wealthy and pumps out CO2 and methane from autos, factory farming, fossil electrical generation, and clear cutting for ag production, that is not a net positive.

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate#what-explains-the-... (Our World In Data: What explains the change in the number of children women have?)

https://www.nationalgeographic.org/topics/resource-library-h...

https://ourworldindata.org/greenhouse-gas-emissions

https://ourworldindata.org/fish-and-overfishing

https://ourworldindata.org/excess-fertilizer

https://ourworldindata.org/diet-affordability

https://ourworldindata.org/living-planet-index-decline

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/farmers-a...

Re:Oil System Collapsing So Fast It May Derail Renewables by iammisc on Thursday October 21, 2021 @09:55PM (#28952955)
How many times will Malthus be proven wrong before we can stop rehashing the same argument?
Re:Oil System Collapsing So Fast It May Derail Renewables by toomuchtodo on Thursday October 21, 2021 @10:09PM (#28953030)
I mean, was he proven wrong? How many people face food and water insecurity daily (~2 billion and ~3 billion, respectively)? Life is not binary, it is a spectrum of quality of life, and hope is not a strategy. The damage we’ve done is clear (see my citations above), as is what we’d do on our way from 7.4 billion to 11 billion people (by 2100).

Population and resource contention are inherently linked.

Re:Oil System Collapsing So Fast It May Derail Renewables by iammisc on Thursday October 21, 2021 @11:46PM (#28953552)
Fewer people face food and water insecurity today than ever before.
Re:Oil System Collapsing So Fast It May Derail Renewables by AnimalMuppet on Thursday October 21, 2021 @05:23PM (#28950978)
The problem is that economic growth usually requires energy...
Re:Oil System Collapsing So Fast It May Derail Renewables by dzhiurgis on Thursday October 21, 2021 @05:16PM (#28950927)
China already has Africa covered
Re:Oil System Collapsing So Fast It May Derail Renewables by iammisc on Thursday October 21, 2021 @04:56PM (#28950746)
Sure, but that's not a family planning drive so much as an education drive.