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Re:Obsidian mirror used by Elizabeth I’s court astrologer ha... by dragonwriter on Wednesday October 13, 2021 @10:34PM (#28859938)
> Rather, the Christian view (and certainly the Catholic view) is one opposed to superstition and the occult on the grounds that superstitions are irrational and immoral and thus opposed to the good of those who engage in them.

As a Catholic, even I recognize that essentially the entirety of Catholic practice is superstition from the perspective of anyone who doesn't either take Catholicism as a priori true on authority or (arguably equivalently) have a personal divine experience justifying Catholicism experientially.

If one is not Catholic to start with, it as easy to dismiss Catholic practice on the same argument as presented above against superstition as it is for Catholics to do so for non-Catholic superstitions.

Re:Obsidian mirror used by Elizabeth I’s court astrologer ha... by thatguy0900 on Wednesday October 13, 2021 @11:54PM (#28860340)
Even if you are a non catholic Christian catholic practice seems very occult and superstitious.
Re:Obsidian mirror used by Elizabeth I’s court astrologer ha... by bildung on Thursday October 14, 2021 @03:09AM (#28861358)
Doesn't this description fit to every religion? It isn't like any of those are founded on rationality or empiric observations.
Re:Obsidian mirror used by Elizabeth I’s court astrologer ha... by ithkuil on Thursday October 14, 2021 @03:29AM (#28861484)
I think it's fair to say that religions spawned from an explicit desire to negate a particular aspect of the Catholic Church indeed is devoid of that particular aspect. That doesn't mean that protestantism is entirely rational, it's still a religion; but it's by definition different from catholicism in those specific ways that led to the schism. For example, I friend of mine got kicked in the butt publicly as a child by a priest because she dared to say that the host "represents" the body of Christ (while, clearly, it literally is the body of Christ, not merely represents it)
Re:Obsidian mirror used by Elizabeth I’s court astrologer ha... by goto11 on Thursday October 14, 2021 @08:01AM (#28863144)
Some protestant denominations believe the host is the body of Christ, others that it only represent the body of Christ.
Re:Obsidian mirror used by Elizabeth I’s court astrologer ha... by brigandish on Thursday October 14, 2021 @04:10AM (#28861675)
There are lots of religions, and lots of sects of religions, with wildly varying claims, methods and cosmologies… some of which are true, some of which are not, and possibly in ill-fitting overlap, some of which that are rational or more rational, and some of which are irrational or less rational. It would be incautious to label them all irrational while only truly considering a small number.
Re:Obsidian mirror used by Elizabeth I’s court astrologer ha... by bmeski on Thursday October 14, 2021 @12:03AM (#28860389)
As opposed to putting a little box on your head and going to a wall?
Re:Obsidian mirror used by Elizabeth I’s court astrologer ha... by Bayart on Thursday October 14, 2021 @06:19AM (#28862402)
Superstition is itself a term of Catholic theology and specifically targets veneration without a formal doctrinal framework, which individual Catholics certainly might be guilty of at times but Catholicism isn't.

While the foundational tenets of Catholicism are supernatural but the system that sprouts from it is highly rational, descriptive and formal. It's a religion of Roman lawyers and it shows.

As a result I have a hard time seeing anybody dismissing Catholicism as superstitious, even if they a priori dismiss the existence of God, unless they have no actual knowledge of it (which, you know, ends up being most people who feel to need to utter an opinion on the subject).

Re:Obsidian mirror used by Elizabeth I’s court astrologer ha... by cygx on Thursday October 14, 2021 @07:30AM (#28862912)
Consider the perspective of the unbeliever:

Catholicism teaches that the laying of hands can endow a person (of male biological sex) with the power to transform bread and wine into flesh and blood through the ritual utterance of certain words.

It's going to be hard sell to explain how that's not superstitious...

Re:Obsidian mirror used by Elizabeth I’s court astrologer ha... by gilleain on Thursday October 14, 2021 @04:59PM (#28870018)
So 'superstition' is defined as non-doctrinal belief. That would make it impossible for Catholicism to be superstitious by definition.

I guess I see what you mean by a religion of Roman lawyers...

To the Aztecs, presumably, there was nothing superstitious about using obsidian mirrors as a shield against evil sprits, either.

Re:Obsidian mirror used by Elizabeth I’s court astrologer ha... by SamPatt on Thursday October 14, 2021 @10:49AM (#28865029)
The alleged miracles of all the saints are the clearest examples of confirmation bias anyone could come up with.