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Re:Major nuclear fusion milestone reached as ‘ignition’ trig... by vilhelm_s on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @01:09PM (#28842239)
Natural gas plants are cheap but they cause global warming, so soon we will not be able to use them. For example, the U.S. target is to have zero carbon emissions from electricity generation by 2035, and zero carbon emissions at all by 2050.
Re:Major nuclear fusion milestone reached as ‘ignition’ trig... by brightball on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @01:29PM (#28842499)
Their carbon emissions are still dramatically lower than those of coal and oil. There are bigger fish to fry than NG.

NG is likely going to be a critical transitional fuel for the planet to depend on while we get to more abundant renewable options, grid batteries and nuclear/fusion/thorium.

Re:Major nuclear fusion milestone reached as ‘ignition’ trig... by adrianN on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @01:35PM (#28842561)
With NG you also have to take into account leakage from extraction and transport. Methane is a pretty strong GHG. I've heard that if you take that into account NG is not that much better than coal.
Re:Major nuclear fusion milestone reached as ‘ignition’ trig... by brightball on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @01:46PM (#28842705)
That makes sense but it seems like a problem that could be addressed if it was focused on.
Re:Major nuclear fusion milestone reached as ‘ignition’ trig... by blake1 on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @02:02PM (#28842935)
Not really. The equipment to seal wells and pipelines against leaks would cost billions.

We need more generation, but solar is already cheaper than new natural gas built on the leaky network. It makes more economic sense to just overbuild your solar at these prices.

[1] $250mn for a single state: https://apnews.com/article/business-environment-and-nature-c...

Re:Major nuclear fusion milestone reached as ‘ignition’ trig... by cmrdporcupine on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @02:42PM (#28843422)
Leaks and emissions specific to NG aside, NG is primarily a byproduct of the oil extraction industry. It lives in a symbiotic relationship with it. To truly get off oil we need to get off gas as well. There's a reason why oil patch boosters and lobbyists and climate change deniers in places like Alberta are also pushing natural gas; the fortunes of oil and gas are tied together. This is a lobby and sector we need to deprecate not support.
Re:Major nuclear fusion milestone reached as ‘ignition’ trig... by pfdietz on Wednesday October 13, 2021 @11:34AM (#28853489)
In the US, the vast majority of NG production is "dry" gas, not associated with oil.
Re:Major nuclear fusion milestone reached as ‘ignition’ trig... by ohgodplsno on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @02:18PM (#28843139)
500 gCO2eq/kWh.

Fuck natural gas. Just because coal and oil are terrible doesn't mean that it is a good option too.

Build hydro, build nuclear, build wind and solar if you have money to waste. But natural gas is not a good stopgap measure while we get to fusion.

Re:Major nuclear fusion milestone reached as ‘ignition’ trig... by brightball on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @02:35PM (#28843334)
It's still less than half what's produced by coal or oil.

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=74&t=11

There are a limited number of locations where hydro is viable and most of them have been tapped (last I read about it at least),

I'm 100% with you on nuclear.

Regardless of cost, we need base load capabilities when the wind isn't blowing and the sun is down. Grid storage hasn't been well proven yet. People are actively fighting nuclear and the costs as well as timeliness are crazy. If there's one thing in this country worth wasting money on, it's nuclear.

If we can't get base load generation from nuclear due to all of the financial risks, NG is about all that's left to carry the load as an improvement over coal and oil.

I'd much rather have zero emission nuclear, but NG is the stop gap that we are left with until we start committing to nuclear (or we have a better round-the-clock option).

Re:Major nuclear fusion milestone reached as ‘ignition’ trig... by coryrc on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @05:05PM (#28845076)
> we need base load capabilities when the wind isn't blowing and the sun is down

That's not a proper use of the concept "base load".

We used to have plants which are only cost-effective when run 24/7, but are cheaper than other kinds. The concept of "base load" is to build those kinds of plants to meet roughly the lowest daily usage so as to minimize costs.

It isn't a substitute for "capacity needed when renewables aren't generating".

Re:Major nuclear fusion milestone reached as ‘ignition’ trig... by londons_explore on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @02:35PM (#28843330)
The existence of natural gas keeps electricity prices low, which disincentives research into other power generation methods.

In a capitalist world, "lets do this until that is ready" plans usually just end up delaying 'that'.

A massive tax on carbon would mean we can all pay for 'this', until 'that' has been developed and we can enjoy low prices again.

Re:Major nuclear fusion milestone reached as ‘ignition’ trig... by beambot on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @02:10PM (#28843046)
What time horizon are NG plants capitalized over? Soon enough, that will be a significant factor in the economic equation...
Re:Major nuclear fusion milestone reached as ‘ignition’ trig... by megaman821 on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @05:07PM (#28845096)
Also NG plants have the potential to burn various levels of hydrogen mixed in with the natural gas. It could be a nice compliment to areas that over-provision solar and wind and make hydrogen with the excess energy.
Re:Major nuclear fusion milestone reached as ‘ignition’ trig... by rfrey on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @04:02PM (#28844379)
Typically 15 years.
Re:Major nuclear fusion milestone reached as ‘ignition’ trig... by Robotbeat on Tuesday October 12, 2021 @02:42PM (#28843436)
In the US, natural gas produces more emissions now than coal, if you include heating. NG is now the big fish to fry.