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Re:The Plague of the Poor by ineptech on Sunday October 10, 2021 @11:34AM (#28819180)
> The politicalization of the vaccine is foolish and unscientific.

I think you're confusing cause and effect here. The politicization of the vaccine is the reason the government is now pushing vaccine mandates and such, not a reaction to it. If Fox News had spent the last year telling its viewers that seat belts make you sterile, the government would be raising fines and ramping up enforcement and generally adopting policies to force people to wear seat belts, right? And some of those policies would inevitably look like overreach, and people would be writing essays like this one complaining about that overreach.

Re:The Plague of the Poor by protomyth on Sunday October 10, 2021 @11:55AM (#28819368)
Both sides are to blame. I stand by my statement. Any politics directed at vaccines is foolish and unscientific. People should acknowledge that mistakes were made by the government and officials with their foolish statements. CNN and Fox are equal partners in the hysteria.

People need to remember the goal is to eliminate the threat, not get everyone vaccinated. These are two different things. Ignoring post-COVID immunity studies just makes officials look unscientific and doesn't contribute to the final goal. Being unscientific puts you at the same level as hucksters. Getting rid of health care workers that risked it all and put a huge strain on their families is just plain dumb and ungrateful. The idea they don't know the whole story is baffling.

Re:The Plague of the Poor by ineptech on Sunday October 10, 2021 @01:53PM (#28820475)
> People need to remember the goal is to eliminate the threat, not get everyone vaccinated.

For you perhaps, but some people have the terminal goal of avoiding vaccination, even if that increases the threat. That is why the government is doing anything and everything, including FUD, to push vaccines down peoples' throats. Their actions will always seem irrational if you ignore that.

Re:The Plague of the Poor by protomyth on Sunday October 10, 2021 @02:04PM (#28820576)
FUD just pushes people away. If you cannot act in a truthful manner you legitimize their beliefs. When you know better and give up on truth, you lose.

The single simplest summation of the concept of evil is "the end justifies the means".

Re:The Plague of the Poor by ineptech on Sunday October 10, 2021 @02:29PM (#28820806)
> summation of the concept of evil

That's a rather strong way to describe someone who refuses to implement a policy you like.

You might be right, a natural immunity exemption might be sound policy. I personally tend to agree. But you can't make the case for it by pretending that opposition to it is based in ignorance or evil, if the opposition is due to the concern that people who would abuse it and the result would be more deaths.

Re:The Plague of the Poor by protomyth on Sunday October 10, 2021 @02:35PM (#28820846)
I can at the point they deviate from the science and truth of the situation. When you concede truth, then you have no basis to implement a public policy. Emotion has no place in a fight against a disease and feeding the emotional argument of anti-vaxers with actual talking points is counterproductive. Fear of abuse is a poor argument because both solutions will be abused (fake vaccine cards are already a thing).
Re:The Plague of the Poor by ineptech on Sunday October 10, 2021 @04:12PM (#28821582)
This sounds like a florid way of saying, "I saw a pro-vax lefty lie about something on TV the other day." Okay, feel free to ignore that one guy, but to argue against the vaccine mandate position generally you have to engage with the strongest arguments for it, not the weakest.
Re:The Plague of the Poor by protomyth on Sunday October 10, 2021 @08:59PM (#28823460)
Ok, once again, I am arguing against mandating vaccines for people who already had COVID. The science and studies say they already have a better immunity than the vaccine. This lack of science is troubling. That is not an anti-vax position. Its a vax if you haven't had COVID and don't if you have. This is the same exact advice when talking about other diseases like measles.
Re:The Plague of the Poor by xkbarkar on Sunday October 10, 2021 @08:33PM (#28823286)
0 logic in mandating vaccines as vaccinated still spread the virus. So no benefit for anyone else than the wearer( if you will ) and mandating injections serves no purpose of protecting others. The seatbelt actually does protect others. An unbuckled backseat passangers will smash a frontseat one in a collision. The covid-19 shots do not protect other though. Comparing seatbelts wearing to covid-19 vaccine is incredibly innacurate.

Vaccine mandates are now down the path of forbidding us to choose what we do with our own bodies.

This is a very, very dangerous path.

Punishing nurses that have aquired immunity via natural infection will hopefully be considered criminal in a not too far away future. Fortunately there are very few places in the world that thinks that doing so is a good idea.

Re:The Plague of the Poor by bayesian_horse on Sunday October 10, 2021 @03:37PM (#28821285)
The "both sides" arguments are total BS here. Fox News clearly entertains lies and factually untrue statements, while actively discouraging the vaccine.

You may not like that CNN endorses vaccination, but you'd be hard pressed to catch them in even a simple incorrect statement, much less an intentional lie, let alone at the same order of magnitude. It is hard not to endorse vaccination if you understand the science.

Re:The Plague of the Poor by rkk3 on Sunday October 10, 2021 @04:00PM (#28821495)
Here's a prominent example of the left politicizing the vaccine...

"If Trump tells us to take it [The Vaccine], I won't" - Kamala Harris

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/2020-vp-debate-kamala-harris-o...

Re:The Plague of the Poor by bayesian_horse on Sunday October 10, 2021 @04:14PM (#28821591)
What do you want to say with this link? That CBS lied that Harris said that? That Harris lied about her mistrust of Donald Trump and his administration?

She is clearly referring to the potential scenario back last year when Trump could be pushing for a vaccine to be approved and released that did not satisfy scientific medical standards, just to benefit in the election. That stance doesn't fit in a few seconds of sound bite, of course.

Re:The Plague of the Poor by rkk3 on Sunday October 10, 2021 @04:21PM (#28821626)
> What do you want to say with this link?

That the left was also guilty of politicizing the vaccine & throwing doubting on its safety when it was politically expedient.

Re:The Plague of the Poor by bayesian_horse on Sunday October 10, 2021 @05:19PM (#28822079)
CNN is not "the left".

Nor did Kamala Harris throw doubt on an existing and proven vaccine. No vaccine had been approved at that point, whereas Trump was blundering through the pandemic response in search of any way to save his political hide. There was a lot of evidence Trump put pressure on public health officials to downplay the pandemic and put people at more risk than necessary.

Trump had already been known to be conman before he was elected. Everything we learned since only put more details on that fact.

Re:The Plague of the Poor by rkk3 on Sunday October 10, 2021 @05:35PM (#28822202)
> Nor did Kamala Harris throw doubt on an existing and proven vaccine

They did exist, were 6+ months and several stages into trials & were given temporary authorization only 2 months latter.

She fomented fear & distrust about the safety of vaccines to score talking points in a debate. Not sure why you think she should get a free pass.

Re:The Plague of the Poor by bayesian_horse on Sunday October 10, 2021 @06:38PM (#28822619)
You are completely lying. The vaccines weren't approved yet, end of story.

Trump admitted in interviews with Bob Woodward that he was lying about the pandemic. What more proof do you need for him to be completely untrustworthy on the topic?

Re:The Plague of the Poor by rkk3 on Sunday October 10, 2021 @08:40PM (#28823324)
> You are completely lying

About what?

> The vaccines weren't approved yet, end of story.

They weren't fully approved until about 6 weeks ago. They had gone through several massive trials and government approvals when she implied the vaccines were unsafe a year ago on national television.

Re:The Plague of the Poor by ineptech on Sunday October 10, 2021 @04:10PM (#28821570)
That's egregiously misleading. In context she clearly said that she would take it, but only when scientists say it's safe, not when Trump says so.

(I will concede that, in implying that Trump would push people to get a vaccine before it was ready, she was wildly wrong.)

Re:The Plague of the Poor by rkk3 on Sunday October 10, 2021 @04:19PM (#28821608)
> I will concede that, in implying that Trump would push people to get a vaccine before it was ready, she was wildly wrong.

Exactly, she (the left) also politicized the vaccine. QED

Re:The Plague of the Poor by bayesian_horse on Sunday October 10, 2021 @05:24PM (#28822120)
She wouldn't have needed to politicize health policy at all if Trump and his administration had shown a basic level of competence and honesty around that topic.

The fear that Trump might push an unproven, unsatisfactory vaccine, was legitimate. Doing so would have damaged the actual vaccination campaign immensely.

Re:The Plague of the Poor by JKCalhoun on Sunday October 10, 2021 @06:28PM (#28822556)
If you're going to say "the left" does this, you should be able to do better than a singular example from over year ago.
Re:The Plague of the Poor by dantheman on Sunday October 10, 2021 @09:07PM (#28823509)
There are a lot of non fox news watchers that aren't getting the vaccine.