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Re:Vim Anti-Patterns That Cause Beginners To:Quit by wruza on Friday October 08, 2021 @04:20AM (#28796895)
stick shift

That is an unfair comparison on the edge of a strawman. In vim, you see your mode right at the cursor shape (bar in insert, block in normal, selection in visual). It’s like saying that DEs are bad because switching active windows is modal. Why not send input to the first window in the taskbar by holding ctrl and to the second by holding ctrl-shift then? Does that sound absurd? Even when you make a modal mistake once in a while, no stakes are lost because uu.

One thing I agree on is that UI could use more graphics, smoothness and features. But all my attempts to adopt vscode failed miserably. It’s just too mouse-y and too configure-y but still lacks futuristic features I want.

Re:Vim Anti-Patterns That Cause Beginners To:Quit by dummy_physicist on Friday October 08, 2021 @11:29AM (#28800356)
I agree on the graphics part. I've tried doom emacs for the graphics, but it's not quite the same thing. On Mac, though, vimr[0] had a nice UI for neovim. On linux I'm yet to find a neovim GUI I'm happy with.

[0]: https://github.com/qvacua/vimr

Re:Vim Anti-Patterns That Cause Beginners To:Quit by BossingAround on Friday October 08, 2021 @04:11PM (#28803648)
I vaguely remember Onivim looked quite nice on Linux. Have you tried that?

Vimr looks excellent on macOS though, I'll definitely give it a go.

Re:Vim Anti-Patterns That Cause Beginners To:Quit by vintermann on Friday October 08, 2021 @08:03AM (#28798254)
Yes, visual feedback reduces the chance of errors with mode switching. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) it's one of the improvements vim has on old vi. Unlimited undo is another one vi certainly didn't have from the start.

I did say the stakes are much lower. But shouldn't we make less critical interfaces with the same care we make more critical ones?

And yes, many things we still have in UIs are arguably mode switching and bad, it's just we haven't figured out better ways to deal with it. With editing we did, long ago.

Re:Vim Anti-Patterns That Cause Beginners To:Quit by stnmtn on Friday October 08, 2021 @12:51PM (#28801298)
How is it easier to move your hand to a trackpad than it is to keep your hands right on the keyboard, do `ci)` which is (c)hange (i)nside `)` to delete all of a function's parameters and instantly be retyping them?

I don't understand how you can speak so authoritatively as if I'm accessing a completely different part of my brain when I'm using vim modes when I'm telling you that having to navigate a cursor to click, drag, and select all text is so much more context switching

And also, that ci) command? It's a language. You can do `ci"`, which is (c)hange (i)nside " to instantly change a string without having to hold the backspace button or manipulate a cursor.

Re:Vim Anti-Patterns That Cause Beginners To:Quit by wruza on Friday October 08, 2021 @07:12PM (#28805186)
I see your point, but I think we’re held back not by UI, but by input methods, including physical ones. And I partially attribute that to vim’s [niche] success. It’s so annoying to hold ctrl-shift to select anything in windows-likes and personally I make much more mistakes while properly fingering the keyboard in these than while using vim modes. The path I see is to make better keyboards with separate keys for fundamental edit ops like selecting, language switching, word/structure navigation, etc, and then some more. We’re too stuck in these typewriter interfaces.