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Re:Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party by dbingham on Wednesday October 06, 2021 @10:36AM (#28773672)
There is no room for a third party to start gaining ground in the US. We already have a third and fourth party - the Libertarian and Green parties - that have been trying to gain traction for years. Neither has been able to. The Greens came the closest with Nader in 2000.

The reason for that is structural. The Democratic and Republican parties have structurally built themselves into the election system in a way that shuts out any attempt to gain traction by third and fourth parties.

Just think about the fact that the Federal Election Commission, the organization that oversees our elections, is legally required to be half Democrat and half Republican. That tells you everything you need to know.

If we're going to change it to make room for additional parties, we have to take over one of the existing parties with an explicit election reform agenda that removes them from the structural landscape and then restructures it (with things like ranked choice voting or a senate that works on proportional party representation) to allow for third parties to gain traction.

Re:Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party by bobthepanda on Wednesday October 06, 2021 @12:22PM (#28774958)
The problem is strategy.

Going for broke by running a presidential candidate is a surefire way to lose, and no one really donates to parties that lose. Which is a problem, because presidential campaigns cost a crapton of money; Bernie 2016 cost $220M and that was the primary.

If you look at successful third or fourth parties in FPTP nations, they are generally running lots of local campaigns, which are cheaper, give a place to train a talent pool, and also show voters proof that they can get a job done. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a formal third party running for local positions near me. And in this role they can serve as kingmaker; they may never get the top job, but in a perenially razor-thin Senate margin and a currently thin House margin they could certainly lord a lot of power even with a handful of seats.

Re:Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party by dbingham on Wednesday October 06, 2021 @01:54PM (#28776100)
Most localities in the US are dominated by one of the major parties to the point where the primary becomes the election. That doesn't leave any room for a third party to break in either. Too many people never learn about local candidates and end up just pulling a straight ticket lever.

This is the end result of decades of gerrymandering.

Re:Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party by qPM9l3XJrF on Thursday October 07, 2021 @04:07AM (#28783483)
I wonder if you could form a mathematical model of which districts would be most amenable to a dedicated 3rd party challenger. It seems like you'd want a district which is a "safe seat" (if there is a serious R/D contest in the district, people will want to avoid "throwing away their votes" by voting for a 3rd party). But you'd also want to identify a district where people are dissatisfied with their elected representative anyways. Ideally the elected representative is a significant distance from the median voter.

Maybe a good metric would be the ratio of primary ballots cast to general election ballots cast. If a small number of extremist primary voters are de facto selecting the candidate that will win the general and get the "safe seat", that suggests an opportunity for disruption by being a high profile 3rd party candidate who's just a bit more moderate than candidates the extremists select (more appealing to the median voter).

Another idea is to reach out to a bunch of independent candidates and try to recruit them for your new party to work towards critical mass.

Re:Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party by bobthepanda on Thursday October 07, 2021 @01:43PM (#28789702)
Really the big issue here is not lack of ability but lack of will.

Look at the Tea Party and the DSA; they have enough motivated bases to form parties of their own, but their strategy is to co-opt and purify the existing mainstream parties. Equivalent movements in Spain decided to make their own parties and Podemos and Vox became the next two largest parties in Spanish elections.

Re:Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party by bobthepanda on Wednesday October 06, 2021 @04:31PM (#28778058)
If you run a third party that is appealing enough, you can certainly have a go at it. I just have literally never seen, I don't know, the Green Party put up a candidate for local city elections.

It's not like party establishments haven't had candidates lose despite all odds. And Independents have had good streaks at lower offices (e.g. Bernie Sanders, Michael Bloomberg)

Re:Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party by alxndr on Wednesday October 06, 2021 @07:25PM (#28779777)
Depends where you are: In the recent California governor recall, there were two Green Party candidates and one Libertarian.
Re:Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party by detaro on Wednesday October 06, 2021 @07:32PM (#28779825)
Governor is already a bit high-level to really have a chance at breaking through, isn't it? Or am I misunderstanding what you mean?
Re:Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party by alxndr on Thursday October 07, 2021 @12:56PM (#28789027)
Was responding to the idea that the Green party doesn't put up candidates for local elections... I think I've seen them on smaller races than Governor as well, but this was a recent example that came to mind easily.
Re:Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party by bobthepanda on Thursday October 07, 2021 @01:43PM (#28789711)
Just curious, but how strong are those campaigns actually? Do they do the door-knocking, the ads, and the voter registration?
Re:Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party by alxndr on Thursday October 07, 2021 @08:25PM (#28794017)
Not in my experience.
Re:Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party by hakfoo on Thursday October 07, 2021 @12:08AM (#28781743)
I wonder if it's seen as a necessary evil for perceived relevance. If you aren't running a presidential candidate, it feels like an admission that you're a local player without the resources to run a big, expensive campaign.

I wonder if there's anything to be learned from those weird "secondary" parties you see in some states. It will be like "Working Families Party" or whatever, with a Democratic or Republican candidate for President and few unique of down-ballot names.

I'm not sure exactly how those work. Might be just a way to use some legacy "default ballot access" In my state, a candidate supplied by any of the four largest parties would get on the ballot, even if only 15 people actually voted for the Green or Libertarian.

Re:Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party by bobthepanda on Thursday October 07, 2021 @01:45PM (#28789740)
Perceived relevance hardly matters if you never win seats, though.

Electoral margins, particularly in downballot elections, are very very slim. For City Council of New York, which is a fairly powerful local position, you are looking at margins in the hundreds or thousands of voters, and combined with how thin legislative majorities tend to be, can form a significant wedge to wield.

Re:Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party by spamizbad on Wednesday October 06, 2021 @11:22AM (#28774233)
> The Democratic and Republican parties have structurally built themselves into the election system in a way that shuts out any attempt to gain traction by third and fourth parties.

It's more than that: The Democratic - (and arguably the Republican party at one time) - are functionally "big tent" parties. For example, the Democratic party has a progressive faction, an "establishment" faction, and a centrist/moderate faction.

Re:Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party by iammisc on Wednesday October 06, 2021 @11:38AM (#28774443)
The republican party has a big tent too. There are neocons, extreme far right people, religious people, disaffected workers, anti globalists, and increasingly Hispanics and other immigrant groups.

These groups often have little in common. Just look at trumps support base.

Re:Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party by chillacy on Thursday October 07, 2021 @01:54AM (#28782628)
From his podcast interview it sounds like this is a “party” like the DSA is a “party”: it throws its support behind more mainstream candidates who advance their platform (mainly ranked choice voting for now). But being independent allows them to throw support behind both Ds and Rs.
Re:Andrew Yang Founds the Forward Party by cjpearson on Wednesday October 06, 2021 @04:03PM (#28777705)
While it's true a third-party attempt is all but hopeless, Nader's campaign isn't the most successful in recent years. Gary Johnson did better in 2016 and Perot did much better in 1992 and 1996 although he wasn't running as a Libertarian or Green.