News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Python 3.11 by sergiomattei on Sunday October 03, 2021 @11:57PM (#28742901)
It's painfully archaic compared to languages that have all this sorted out.

Pip is a recipe for disaster, indicated by the huge amount of churn in the Python packaging sphere. It's constantly the worst part of my day whenever I pick a Python project up. Conflicting dependencies, non-deterministic installs, etc.

I used to cope with this crap fest until I tried Elixir and experienced the beauty of modern package management and build tools. One tool, Mix, that handles task running and dependency management with a proper resolver.

I honestly think even Node has a better package management and tooling story.

Also: virtual environments are a hack and a pain. Python is moving forward in this aspect with the recent PEP for the pypackages folder, but we're still a long way from adoption.

All of this stuff is painful for beginners. Virtual environments might seem easy to us, but I've had ridiculous amounts of trouble explaining why they're necessary to beginner developers. Then you have to explain `poetry` or `pip freeze`.

Even I have trouble coming back to older projects of mine and I'm an experienced Pythonista: I usually waste an hour or two trying to sort the pip dependencies out with whatever conflicts the resolver comes up with this time.

Python package management is not okay, we're all just used to coping with it. Other languages put it to shame.

Re:Python 3.11 by cerved on Monday October 04, 2021 @01:46AM (#28743467)
Package management is pretty fubar for in every language I've tried but python is one of the worst
Re:Python 3.11 by infamia on Monday October 04, 2021 @12:31PM (#28749063)
> non-deterministic installs

Things continue to improve. For example, Pip's resolver has been deterministic since around November 2020. Bringing something minimal into Python that provides deterministic builds (e.g. pip-tools) would help packaging a lot.