> And how would those dictionaries define savagery?

I mean, a good nothing-up-my-sleeve definition is the Google one: https://www.google.com/search?q=define+savagery https://www.google.com/search?q=define+savage

Respectfully, I think you're hunting down odd-one-out definitions that support your theory - not necessarily consciously. All of these words connote cruelty. The overwhelming majority of dictionary definitions bear that out.

I don't think arguing about the semantics of "barbarism" really takes away from the original overarching argument: nature is primitive and cruel but humans in general at least try to alleviate that kind of cruelty seen in non-human nature.

> takes away from the original overarching argument: nature is primitive and cruel but humans in general at least try to alleviate that kind of cruelty seen in non-human nature

And if that were the only claim they made, that would be fine. I just happen to dislike people dishonestly twisting facts – in this case, misrepresenting the meaning of a word by cherry-picking some recherché fringe definition and making it out to be the primary meaning – to make their argument sound more impressive.

> a good nothing-up-my-sleeve definition is the Google one

Now try “barbaric”. Definition two: “primitive; unsophisticated” [1]. (Sorry, could not help it.)

> these words connote cruelty

Never argued it didn’t. My original comment uses the same word.

[1] https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%20barbaric#crs=...

> Now try “barbaric”. Definition two: “primitive; unsophisticated”

Yes, definition two. I reiterate what I said before: you're searching for fringe meanings to back up your argument.

Your original comment argued that the meaning of 'barbaric' was primarily about simplicity and primitiveness, in order to argue that the phrase 'nature is barbaric' is agnostic about nature's cruelty. This makes for a neat-sounding argument, but, again, it's unfortunately just not true. The word 'barbaric' has signified cruelty as its dominant meaning ever since the Romans.

(I know it's tempting to twist the facts a little to make an elegant argument, but it's just not honest to cherry-pick secondary definitions, or anomalous definitions from minor dictionaries, and use sleight-of-hand to pretend that's the main understood meaning.)