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Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by TeMPOraL on Thursday September 30, 2021 @05:26PM (#28711511)
Correction: they make it possible for people/entities who can afford to waste most money to get them instead of those first/lucky. But how is that a better outcome? And why should this involve people spending more money, and all the delta going to the person who was first in line or in lucky position to secure a loan and buy off all the supply?
Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by lmm on Thursday September 30, 2021 @10:44PM (#28713910)
> they make it possible for people/entities who can afford to waste most money to get them instead of those first/lucky. But how is that a better outcome?

It's not "waste", it's the people who are willing to spend the most money, which are presumably the people who want/need the thing most, so it's better than allocating the thing at random.

> And why should this involve people spending more money, and all the delta going to the person who was first in line or in lucky position to secure a loan and buy off all the supply?

The person who makes a good judgement about what things are underpriced is selling a service to the market and earning their cut. A seller who's paying attention should see the rush and raise their prices (and ideally increase production to match that).

Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by puszczyk on Friday October 01, 2021 @05:15AM (#28716229)
> It's not "waste", it's the people who are willing to spend the most money, which are presumably the people who want/need the thing most, so it's better than allocating the thing at random.

It’s not a waste, but it’s not best allocation either. It seems like the chips will go to established players with large and cheap credit lines and ossify the market even more.

The scalpers are not like market makers who are regulated, provide both bid and ask, and whose spread is usually quite small in comparison to scalpers.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/marketmakerspread.asp

Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by lmm on Sunday October 03, 2021 @12:26AM (#28734534)
> It’s not a waste, but it’s not best allocation either. It seems like the chips will go to established players with large and cheap credit lines and ossify the market even more.

Credit is cheap, and there's no particular barrier to entry (unless we're talking about things like backroom deals with concert promoters, which I'm sure does happen, but isn't an essential part of the business), so I'd expect this to be a fairly competitive market.

> The scalpers are not like market makers who are regulated, provide both bid and ask, and whose spread is usually quite small in comparison to scalpers.

Market maker regulation is relatively recent, and market making is recognised as having served a beneficial function long before that. Many of these ticket sites do list bid prices for your tickets as well. The spread is pretty wide compared to listed equities that trade hundreds of times a second, sure, but if you compare a single concert's ticket with a stock or bond that trades at a similar rate (which would be, like, the bottom end of the pink sheets) it's not so bad.

Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by medvezhenok on Thursday September 30, 2021 @05:38PM (#28711640)
Scalpers allow people who are not price sensitive or have inelastic demand priority over people who are lucky / first.

The ethics depends on the exact case study provided. If it's a rich person buying an xbox (not price sensitive) - that's one thing, and most people would not support it. If it's someone needing an IC for a heart monitor to stay alive (inelastic demand), most would say that providing them an IC over someone who wants to play the latest video game is a good service.

Scalpers do both (1) and (2).

Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by nicoburns on Thursday September 30, 2021 @07:23PM (#28712488)
Scalpers only do (2) for those who can afford it. If scalpers were willing to hand out goods on the merit of the application rather than profit then I’d have much more sympathy. But then they wouldn’t really be scalpers anymore.

I’m willing to bet that scalpers starve critical applications of goods far more than they provide them. Providers of critical services are usually poorly funded.

Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by bluecalm on Thursday September 30, 2021 @08:30PM (#28712955)
Or maybe they are price sensitive but the goods are just worth more to them.
Re:Chip shortage leads carmaker Opel to shut German plant un... by TeMPOraL on Friday October 01, 2021 @05:42AM (#28716384)
The scalper can't distinguish between a poorer person who really needs a thing, and a richer person who just kinda wants it. They will happily price out the former before the latter gives up.

There seems to be an assumption in the discussions about the market that people don't do stupid shit with money. That the same good cannot be both life-critical for one, and a source of cheap entertainment for another. That people only ever spend money to make more money. That they are perfectly consistent over time. That nothing is ever time-critical, it may be only time-discounted.

But the reality is, people are irrational, things take time, and markets have inertia. In a scalper-managed shortage of critical medication, it's perfectly possible for a rich person who watched one too many end-of-the-world movies to buy up the supply at high markup, to stock their fallout shelter, and have it rot there while people who need it die. It takes time for a chip scalper to insert themselves into the market, buy up the supply and advertise their existence - in that time, the factories might be wasting megadollars of money.