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Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by jbellis on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @03:42PM (#28609016)
How is the state of linux power saving (i.e., mobile battery life) in 2021? Last time I checked you could expect to get almost 2x the battery life on equivalent hardware with Windows or Mac OS.
Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by ohazi on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @08:40PM (#28611836)
Generally pretty good.

With tlp and a 5.10ish kernel, my T480 handles light web browsing at 3-5 W depending on display brightness (wqhd display). Heavier websites, high-res video decoding, etc. will bring it up to 7-10 W. Maybe 20 W when compiling something, or when attempting to use the (worthless) Nvidia GPU (which I leave powered down most of the time).

It has a dual battery setup with a 24 Wh internal battery and a 72 Wh external battery (I use the bulbous 6-cell, but you can get a thinner one if you prefer), so even when setting the charge stop thresholds at 80% to preserve cell lifetime, the computer easily lasts all day on battery.

That being said, it would be easy to find a random laptop that either idles at something stupid or that can't go to sleep properly because of just one wacky peripheral, making Linux power management seem bad.

Half the battle is picking the right starting point (e.g. a Thinkpad), and then setting everything up so you can actually measure the power in all of the different states so that you can actually confirm that your setup works properly before relying on it and ending up disappointed at the airport.

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by robmsmt on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @08:41AM (#28615637)
if you could point to how you configured your power management that would be great
Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by smoldesu on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @08:44AM (#28615653)
"sudo tlp start" :)
Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by ohazi on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @02:49PM (#28620176)
Start with this. If there are peripherals you don't use (something as small as a Bluetooth adapter or as large as a GPU), figure out how to power them down, and get the computer to put them in that state by default.

On ThinkPads (and probably on others), you can monitor the instantaneous power consumption by poking around in:

    /sys/class/power_supply/*
There are widgets that can monitor this for you and alert you if anything seems amiss, but I just have a script that puts some text and symbols in my menu bar:

https://github.com/ohazi/dotfiles/blob/master/bin/battery.sh

You can use this to confirm that (for example) your wifi card is actually powering down when you ask it to.

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by robmsmt on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @10:50PM (#28624749)
Thanks it looks neat. I'll check out your scripts - especially interested in the power draw part for myself. I had setup the 80% cycling before but that was on my n-1 installation and haven't had chance to put that back on.

I have a friend who I convinced to buy a Thinkpad and stick ubuntu 20.04 on it. Unfortunately he got a more expensive X1 one with an Nvidia Graphics card, it strangely overheats when he needs to charge it and plugs it into the AC. I suspect the power settings are all over the place. I've not had chance to get a log from him yet. How did you "power down" your nvidia card?

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by ohazi on Thursday September 23, 2021 @11:22AM (#28630508)
> How did you "power down" your nvidia card?

First I made sure X was working the way I wanted with Intel graphics. There are a handful of ways to do hybrid graphics on Linux, depending on what you want to be able to do, and how old your hardware is (including "I didn't even want this thing, just keep it powered off forever"). The Arch wiki has some pretty good guides [1] that are helpful even if you're using a different system.

bbswitch seems to work on my system, and the interface is really simple [2]. But there's also this page on acpi_call [3], which suggests that bbswitch is old and unmaintained and that newer systems do something different. From a quick scan, it looks like the Arch wiki also mentions this approach.

As far as drivers go, I know everyone likes to dump on Nvidia for their closed source mess, but on every system I've used with Nvidia hardware (desktops and laptops), I've found that the Nvidia drivers have universally been more reliable than nouveau, so that's what I use.

[1] https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/hybrid_graphics (poke around in "Related Articles" too)

[2] https://github.com/Bumblebee-Project/bbswitch#turn-the-card-...

[3] https://github.com/geminis3/nvidia-gpu-off

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by abdullahkhalids on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @05:58PM (#28610523)
When I bought my T440s in 2013 (8 years ago now), I could push it to 18 hours with wifi off. And could get 10 hours plus with wifi. I seriously doubt Windows or Mac OS would have gotten much more juice out of it.
Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by ryantgtg on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @10:55PM (#28612663)
I currently use a T440S, with Arch Linux, and fairly recently replaced batteries. I feel like I only get 5 hours or so. Although if I’m on my work computer, with my T440s open next to me and I’m lightly using it throughout the day then it easily lasts all day, with like 30-40% remaining at the end of the workday. My biggest beef is that the replacement batteries these days seem bad - even brand new Lenovo brand ones degrade really fast. My assumption is that they’re not being manufactured anymore, and so a “new” battery is actually new old stock and has been sitting around for years. I am tempted to upgrade to a newer laptop.
Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by sudosysgen on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @10:49AM (#28616949)
New batteries won't lose capacity over time. A lot of "new" batteries are just knockoffs, but there's no way of knowing without opening them.

If you want good aftermarket batteries, KingSener has a solid reputation. Only go for aftermarket batteries that are upfront about being aftermarket and are open about the cells they use and well reviewed, or for sealed Lenovo batteries in original packaging.

I recently bought a brand new, sealed 72Wh original battery. It sat sealed for so long the batteries went down below 3.1V per cell and the pack locked itself. Looking at the self discharge curves I'd expect this to be the case for any actually new battery.

To make it work I had to open the battery and use a specialized charger to give it 0.1A of current until it got to 3.3V per cell, and I then programmed it to charge at 6A, after which the battery pack decided to start up.

Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by ryantgtg on Thursday September 23, 2021 @11:33AM (#28630690)
Thanks. I’ll try that brand. I buy mine from Encompass, the official seller of Lenovo batteries. So they shouldn’t be knockoffs, nor unsealed. But, one battery went from 90% health down to 30% in the course of six months. And they’re not cheap!
Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by TobTobXX on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @04:44PM (#28609689)
Can't comment on mobile, but I've set my laptop to sleep after 10min of inactivity and 3min after lid close and it lasts the whole day (4.1Ah). I'm not using it for 8h straight, but rather a combined 3h or sth probably but with this aggressive sleep settings it easily stretches some 8h and I don't feel afraid of it just going out at the end of the day.
Re:The Framework is the most exciting laptop I've used by sudosysgen on Wednesday September 22, 2021 @10:45AM (#28616897)
Nowadays Windows consumes more power than Arch Linux with KDE given a processor underclock and power saving tweaks.

On my X250 with a 72Wh external battery I can get 14h of battery life without sacrificing much of anything.