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Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by onlyrealcuzzo on Sunday September 19, 2021 @02:01PM (#28586437)
> Nobody is paying attention and actively prides themselves in not learning and never reading a book in their lives, that's the problem.

If we had a more meritocratic society, I doubt people would pride themselves in their ignorance.

But as it stands, our society rewards both luck and misfortune - and we privatize gains and socialize losses.

Combine that with the fact that access corruption is rampant in Western societies - and the way to succeed is to take excessive risk, woo gatekeepers, execute, and get lucky.

Only one of those requires the type of intelligence you get in school (execution). And if you have enough luck or corruption, you don't even need to execute.

Why do the hard work on trying to find cures for common forms of cancer, make breakthroughs toward fusion energy, or increase crop yields on staple crops - when you can take on excessive risk in property speculation and your odds of financial success are many times higher?

I'm a strong believer that the world is getting better every day - even in recent times. But I'm not sure how much longer that trend will last in a world that gives smart people very few incentives to do things that actually benefit society.

Maybe with enough people we're destined to get lucky and progress no matter what.

Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by throwdecro on Sunday September 19, 2021 @03:06PM (#28586987)
Real-world success is generally a matter of luck no matter what the incentives are. You can't make your cancer research pan out, you can only do it diligently and find out later if it was the right direction. You can definitely screw it up. But you can't make it work without a bit of luck.

If people can't keep their luck-based gains, no one has any real reason to try anything unusual. Everyone would be chasing the puck instead of skating to the open ice hoping to catch a break. Society would stagnate.

Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by bittercynic on Sunday September 19, 2021 @08:43PM (#28589314)
Things look much more predictable and fair if you adjust your definition of success a little bit. A modest life with reasonable stability and time for some recreation and vacations is within reach for a large fraction of people (in Norcal - don't know about elsewhere) with some hard work and financial restraint. This feels like success to me.
Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by WalterBright on Sunday September 19, 2021 @09:48PM (#28589653)
> you can't make it work without a bit of luck.

You won't get any luck if you don't try.

Working to put yourself into a situation where luck can find you will greatly increase your luck.

Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by ethbr0 on Monday September 20, 2021 @07:03AM (#28592406)
Re: luck, from my father, "It's amazing how lucky well-prepared people are."
Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by onlyrealcuzzo on Sunday September 19, 2021 @04:03PM (#28587435)
I guess if you can only imagine a society structured like it is today.

If we all accepted that luck is the driving force, decided that we would rather live in a world where hard work and intelligence pays off - then it's possible to imagine a world in which you're rewarded for hard work (on areas of importance) and gains are socialized instead of losses. The socialized gains could pay people who worked hard and their ideas didn't pan out.

I'm not saying this is a world that would work and is better.

But it's pretty unimaginative to think it's just flat out impossible to have progress in any society that isn't structured around luck.

Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by bradleyjg on Sunday September 19, 2021 @08:11PM (#28589154)
Intelligent people tried central planning and it didn’t work. Repeatedly.

If you are going to propose banging our head into that wall again you can’t just naively point out how great it sounds from first principles. Been there, done that. Instead you need to seriously grapple with those failures and convincingly explain why this time will be different.

Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by srean on Sunday September 19, 2021 @10:48PM (#28589936)
Seems to be working well for Walmart. A major problem with central planning is timely flow of accurate information. Although this is still a problem, it has become much easier to do so than in the past.
Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by nickpp on Monday September 20, 2021 @04:21AM (#28591417)
Do not confuse forms of governance intended for whole societies with those that work for smaller, more controlled and more selective organizations.
Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by srean on Monday September 20, 2021 @05:17AM (#28591732)
Walmart cannot be compared to the USA or China for sure, but your criticism is a little pedantic and presumptuous. There are national economies that are in the same order of magnitude as, or smaller than, that of Walmart's.
Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by ethbr0 on Monday September 20, 2021 @07:09AM (#28592449)
As context, if my numbers are right, then at ~$550B annual revenue Walmart would be around the GDP of Belgium and Thailand.

Or about the 25th largest economy in the world, if looking at it that way.

And it's a better corporate analogy than most, considering it essentially does everything from retail to services.

Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by coffeemig on Monday September 20, 2021 @11:29AM (#28594862)
And it’s failing again! Interest rate interventionism has been slowly eroding social and economic mobility in the west for 30 years!
Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by onlyrealcuzzo on Monday September 20, 2021 @12:00PM (#28595257)
Why is decentralized planning impossible? Why can't areas of importance be picked by democratic vote?

It seems like a possible option.

Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by notquitehere on Sunday September 19, 2021 @05:45PM (#28588236)
I think the hard part of that is socializing the definition of "areas of importance"

Also getting everyone to accept one worldview. Maybe the most important area of importance would be educating people to see things the way you see...

Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by enaaem on Thursday September 23, 2021 @06:02PM (#28636159)
I am all for it as long as I can decide what is important!
Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by xyzzyz on Sunday September 19, 2021 @02:39PM (#28586753)
> Combine that with the fact that access corruption is rampant in Western societies - and the way to succeed is to take excessive risk, woo gatekeepers, execute, and get lucky.

Can you name one country in the world where it is not true?

Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by enkid on Sunday September 19, 2021 @02:20PM (#28586609)
I don't think that type of corruption is most prevalent in Western societies.
Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by inglor_cz on Sunday September 19, 2021 @03:58PM (#28587398)
Luck sort of rewards itself, it is a part of its very definition.

But I would not be so hostile to luck. We need it. The Lord of the Rings would never exist if Tolkien wasn't lucky enough to come down with a trench foot and thus survive the Great War. mRNA vaccines might not exist if Katalin Karikó did not beat that cancer in the late 1990s. Etc.

Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by djbebs on Sunday September 19, 2021 @05:04PM (#28587908)
The reason we don't have a meritocracy society is because failure is being rewarded.

Cut the welfare, stop punishing success with higher taxes and you'll see just how much better people can be.

Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by arvinsim on Monday September 20, 2021 @06:07AM (#28592056)
Small fry compared to banks and companies being bailed out by the government.
Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by isodude on Sunday September 19, 2021 @05:15PM (#28587994)
That would be great for society but awful for it's citizens.

Failure is not being rewarded, being a member of sociery is, it's not about performance.

Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by djbebs on Monday September 20, 2021 @05:49AM (#28591938)
Failure is being rewarded with free services, lower taxes and a whole bunch of other benefits, this isnt really in question here.

Dollar for dollar poor people pay 1 sixth of the income taxes that high income earners pay. If that's not rewarding failure, what is?

Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by isodude on Monday September 20, 2021 @08:24AM (#28593037)
You put an equal sign between failure and low income, which in my mind is quite baffling. You could be a failure and pay a lot of taxes too.

But it's not uncommon, we do it with our kids all the time. "If you don't perform good grades, you are not good enough". My point being that changing that view to, "look at what opportunities you (will) have now". Someone being a failure according to you may be quite demotivated at reaching a high income due to the fact that it seems impossible, why do the effort? For what is more important than playing a role in society, and be a good human? Is really income a value of how human you are?

Re:The financial literacy industrial complex by onlyrealcuzzo on Tuesday September 21, 2021 @04:48AM (#28603156)
You're assuming market prices for labor aren't artificially low because the system works against them.

You're also assuming high incomes are completely independent of Central Banks subsidizing asset prices.