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Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by melomal on Friday September 17, 2021 @08:54AM (#28564881)
If it has revenue and is growing then I would look to get a loan to double down on what is working.

Pay back the loan whilst increasing revenue and keep the entire company to yourself/team. The additional revenue can offset the expenses which were taken care of by the loan.

Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by 0xfaded on Friday September 17, 2021 @09:01AM (#28564967)
By which time an American company will have copied your business model and plow 10x anything you could ever dream of raising in Europe into dominating your market.
Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by devops000 on Friday September 17, 2021 @09:23AM (#28565174)
Sometime this happened. I would prefer to own 100% of a smaller but profitable company instead of 5% of a high-growth/negative profits and starving for the next funding to survive.
Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by adventured on Friday September 17, 2021 @01:35PM (#28568368)
There are many scenarios.

There is also: 5% of a high growth, negative profit, thriving company that can rather trivially raise additional capital to keep pushing growth faster.

Hundreds of start-up companies have fit that model over the last 10-20 years.

See: Facebook, Airbnb, Zoom, Twilio, Square, Stripe, DigitalOcean, Cloudflare, Fastly, DocuSign, Teladoc, Datadog, Coinbase, Etsy, Lyft, Uber, DoorDash, Pinterest, Twitter, Snapchat, Okta, Zscaler, Hubspot, CrowdStrike, Palo Alto Networks, Splunk, Workday, ServiceNow, The Trade Desk, Snowflake, Roku, Unity Software, MongoDB, Robinhood, Palantir, Roblox, Veeva Systems, Wayfair, Peloton, UiPath (Romania originally), Anaplan, Qualtrics, Asana, RingCentral, Zendesk, Dropbox, Appian, Bumble, Smartsheet, Stitch Fix, C3 AI, Affirm, JFrog, Box, BigCommerce, Sumo Logic, FireEye, Qualys.

Along with dozens of other prominent and smaller companies. And although not US companies, Shopify, Atlassian, Elastic, Wix, MercadoLibre and Spotify are also in that same bucket (and were funded by US venture capital). China also has a ton of thriving companies funded in a similar model (Alibaba, Pinduoduo, ByteDance, Didi, JD, Tencent, etc).

These are significant companies that all followed that model - to one degree or another - and have IPO'd in the past decade (even Tesla's IPO was just 11 years ago, they exist courtesy of the same model).

Salesforce lost money for a very long time. They were founded in 1999, and didn't reliably turn an operating profit until just a few years ago. In a few years they'll be larger than SAP.

Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by moneywoes on Friday September 17, 2021 @02:15PM (#28568963)
Salesforce already beats SAP in market cap though no?
Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by VBprogrammer on Friday September 17, 2021 @11:28AM (#28566605)
Surely the aim of the game is not to be left holding the bag when the music stops. In that situation you would need to be making sure your own financial position no longer depended upon that of the continued success of the company.

Not saying that is a good way to run a business or the one I would personally prefer.

Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by long_time_gone on Friday September 17, 2021 @09:12AM (#28565062)
Are there examples of this phenomenon? If so, please share.
Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by andy_ppp on Friday September 17, 2021 @09:33AM (#28565281)
Yes, I’d like to see some examples of this, I’ve never heard of the fast follow working but happy to be corrected. The thing is they will not have access to your metrics to know the rate of growth and as we all know most amazing startups look like bad ideas on the surface. Take for example something like Substack - it should be easy to copy but they already have a moat in terms of mindshare with writers so I’d say there isn’t much point. Basically by the time you’re thinking about copying something that has product market fit it’s already too late for you to be the incumbent.
Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by jbrownbridge on Friday September 17, 2021 @09:49AM (#28565446)
I'm no expert here but I thought it was the other way around. I remember seeing Rocket Internet clone several US based startups in the European market successfully. Either in selling them back to the original startup or dominating the market e.g. Zalando
Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by andy_ppp on Friday September 17, 2021 @10:10AM (#28565683)
I worked for Rocket Internet for 6 months one year and if you get beaten by them you deserve to lose. You can safely forget about them if you are good.
Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by jack_riminton on Friday September 17, 2021 @10:39AM (#28565997)
I was approached by Rocket internet to be a CEO of one of their companies and after asking me the type of company I wouldn't be interested in (I said "health/beauty, B2C") they still went on to offer me the role of CEO of a B2C teeth straightening company

Utterly bizarre, they weren't listening to a word I said yet wanted me to lead one of their companies?!

Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by GlennS on Friday September 17, 2021 @09:44AM (#28565397)
The idea that Substack have a moat seems a bit implausible, given how new they are.

Have they finished displacing Medium yet? Who in turn only appeared a few years ago?

Have any normal people even heard of these companies?

Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by jacobr1 on Friday September 17, 2021 @11:52AM (#28566924)
Substack is winning because of business model innovation, and also because of market timing. Their technology isn't really an advantage compared to legacy CMS platforms - how they are employing that technology is the difference.

Medium went for a bottom-up approach, trying to monetize the content of the crowd. Substack is going for a top-down approach, grabbing writers with an existing large following and paying them top rates, which are justified by the conversion rates for their well-known creators.

Normal people might not have heard of these companies, but niche audiences certainly follow some of the specific authors/columnists/influencers and are following them onto substack with paid subscriptions.

Is that a moat, or will they jump to the next platform? A few have been poached by the NYT and other venues, so maybe the moat isn't that big.

Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by andy_ppp on Friday September 17, 2021 @10:13AM (#28565714)
Ask any writer you know about substack, they have mind share that the competition will struggle to catch. It's a moving target remember, first you have to launch, then you have to get a load of a-list writers on your platform, then you have to figure what new thing is going to get you users. This will take you at least 6 months maybe longer. By then Substack should be at least 6 months ahead of you maybe more.
Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by guiriduro on Friday September 17, 2021 @09:41AM (#28565363)
Yes, that's why Google doesn't exist and Altavista rules world search.
Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by andy_ppp on Friday September 17, 2021 @10:27AM (#28565888)
It's actually much more complex than a post on hacker news could summarise here, but I will say AltaVista tried to compete with Yahoo and add features rather than compete with Google.

If you think Google was a fast follower you are incorrect. There are patterns to how these types of company crop up and they are about revolutions in how a field is done rather than "copy AltaVista" and see if you can catch them. Nobody succeeds at copying a company that has a genuine mission to accomplish.

I'm not saying it's impossible to build a company that happens to do the same thing as say Substack but you have to build it for the correct reasons and fast followers are generally always compromised in some way.

Your glib suggestion that Google, a once per decade company, is a follower of AltaVista really doesn't do any of what Google accomplished justice.

Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by igammarays on Friday September 17, 2021 @09:52AM (#28565486)
More VC money is NOT always better. Instagram, WhatsApp, and other unicorns were built with extremely small teams. Latest case in point: Mailchimp, built with 0 VC funding.
Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by pedalpete on Friday September 17, 2021 @06:52PM (#28571796)
Instagram had raised over $57M in VC funding before being acquired. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Instagram#:~:text=....
Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by goohle on Friday September 17, 2021 @10:48AM (#28566088)
Yep, lot of investor money can contribute to bankruptcy: WeWork, Katerra, etc.: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-06-08/katerr...
Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by streetcat1 on Friday September 17, 2021 @11:40AM (#28566760)
What, where ? Can you give a concrete example where an American company copied European company?

I.e. facebook cannot even copy snapchat and they have INFINTE resources, and 2B users.

Also, Markets today are so huge, nobody dominating anything.

Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by melomal on Saturday September 18, 2021 @02:04AM (#28574073)
This can be true but ultimately if this is a fear, you need VC money.
Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by tarr11 on Friday September 17, 2021 @10:23AM (#28565839)
Getting a loan is very difficult unless you are profitable.
Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by edf13 on Friday September 17, 2021 @09:14AM (#28565090)
Investors and Y Comb bring a lot more than just cash though
Re:Taking part in Y Combinator from Europe: is it worth it? by melomal on Saturday September 18, 2021 @03:58AM (#28574490)
They bring additional stress.

These people are in the business of making money, which means growth at all costs and at a huge ROI, especially since insane valuations and going public is creating crazy returns for investors.