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Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by Syonyk on Thursday September 16, 2021 @01:50PM (#28554834)
I use a trained neural network I keep between my ears...

Recall is sometimes fuzzy with age, but it works well enough, and I don't have to worry about external queries violating my various rights nearly as much as with tech companies.

At this point, I think every piece of modern consumer electronics ought to be considered hostile until proven benign. I've worked with enough of them over the years, on different ends, to no longer trust any of them.

I'm also old enough to remember the before-times - when there wasn't the technology to track us everywhere, or, when we did have something breadcrumbing, it wasn't being automatically uploaded to whoever, wherever, etc.

My first question, though, would be "Why?" What value do you get out of tracking your location with any great detail that self hosting it would be of much value? However, various cheap GPS loggers and Google Earth import probably would do a lot of what you're looking for.

Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by chrononaut on Thursday September 16, 2021 @02:47PM (#28555595)
> I use a trained neural network I keep between my ears... Recall is sometimes fuzzy with age, but it works well enough, and I don't have to worry about external queries violating my various rights nearly as much as with tech companies.

I don't understand the point you're making (unless you're being snarky.) You recognize that most other users of Google Location History can do the same?

> My first question, though, would be "Why?" What value do you get out of tracking your location with any great detail that self hosting it would be of much value?

Another way of framing is what utility Location History can provide to users. Some use cases are casual ("Where did I go exactly on this trip two years ago?", "Where did I eat when I was in X city 9 months ago?", etc) while other people have personal uses for it: https://towardsdatascience.com/analyzing-my-google-location-...

> However, various cheap GPS loggers and Google Earth import probably would do a lot of what you're looking for.

That would probably work, as well perhaps another OSM-based mapping application. I don't know the value of all that extra metadata which is computed though (as highlighted in the above article).

Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by Syonyk on Thursday September 16, 2021 @02:55PM (#28555701)
> I don't understand the point you're making (unless you're being snarky.)

I am. I'm referring to my brain in a "tech industry buzzword" way. It is, technically speaking, a trained neural network. Just a biological one, not a silicon/code based one. I happen to like it, and it can also do things like tell the difference between a low moon in the sky through a smoke haze and a traffic light.

> Another way of framing is what utility Location History can provide to users.

"If there are any positives, then the technology is worth using!" style thinking misses, entirely, the concept of opportunity cost, and the various downsides.

I won't argue that it's not pretty cool to see everywhere you've been - but it's also an exceedingly detailed record of who you are, and anyone who claims it can be suitably anonymized is full of crap (see the Grindr Bishop for a solid case study here).

Where I really start to get upset, though, is that there's no opt-in for this, other than some vague, generic, "nobody reads this and it doesn't say anything anyone would understand anyway" clickthroughs.

Android doesn't have a, "Would you like us to keep a record of your location and everywhere you've been? You can review it later and see what cool places you've been!" sort of opt-in. It just does it.

Google clearly is getting some value from that data, and it's not at all clear what it is.

Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by chrononaut on Thursday September 16, 2021 @04:54PM (#28557437)
Right, and I think OP (or at least myself) agrees with the points you've made, which is why they seem to be trying strike a balance between gaining the advantages of Location History, but keeping that data to themselves and outside the Google umbrella, and thus want to understand how to do it.

I view it similarly as others looking at methods to self-host their photo backup with timeline indexing and searching, etc.

Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by peterburkimsher on Thursday September 16, 2021 @09:29PM (#28560082)
Ten years ago, in 2011, Pete Warden discovered that the iPhone was tracking peoples' locations. It was considered to be a bug at the time, because it was only intended to be stored for up to a week, for knowing which phone transmitter to use.

https://petewarden.github.io/iPhoneTracker/

"the advantages of Location History"

I thought that this data would be useful to help geotag the photos in my iPhoto library. So I wrote a little script to parse the iPhone data, and cross-match the timestamps with photos. Never became really popular though, probably because people now use phones to take photos and they already include the location in the EXIF data.

iPhone Geotag

https://peterburk.github.io/programs/#iPhoneGeotag

"keeping that data to themselves"

Once the bug was fixed, and Apple stopped storing location data indefinitely, I thought it would be kind of handy as a feature. So I wrote a little PHP script that ran on my jailbroken iPhone and saved a log of my location every 30 minutes.

It recorded data from Monday, May 12, 2014 3:44:52 PM to Wednesday, April 8, 2015 9:00:06 AM

My battery life got worse, because the GPS kept turning on. During that whole year, I never wanted to check the data, not even once. So I turned off the script. Not tracking myself made me less self-conscious about where I was walking and what I was doing, and it was a relief.

I do use an iPhone, but it's an old 4S with iOS 6.1.3, and I only switch on 3G rarely in case of emergencies. I don't use iCloud for backup, only USB sync. The phone companies will know my location, but Apple probably don't. With the security features all compromised through jailbreaking, I can see everything on my phone so I know what data they could possibly get. And that's good enough for me.

Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by dragonsky on Friday September 17, 2021 @01:55AM (#28561767)
Just wondering what type of thing were you doing that would make you self conscious about your location? Please don't read anything much into this, just interested in what type of things people feel uncomfortable about having recoded.

For me the most uncomfortable thing I ever did was itemise how much money I had spent at different outlets. I discovered that I'd spent an incredible amount of money scuba diving over a 12 month period. Not something that I wanted to share with my partner.

Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by peterburkimsher on Friday September 17, 2021 @03:40AM (#28562400)
While going for a walk or biking back from work, if I have time and it's not raining, then I like to clean as I go [1]. Picking up and throwing away litter that I see on the street. Sometimes that might involve trespassing, but it's for the greater good.

Like you, I started logging my expenses too! And I still do that. I'm using some scripts on my phone, with one icon on the homescreen for each kind of expense, logging to a TSV.

It has made me more self-conscious about spending money, but that's probably a good thing! Pressuring me to give more money to beggars and spend less on bubble tea.

[1] UncleBob applied "clean as you go" to code, too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSaAMQVq01E&t=2021s

Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by xvector on Friday September 17, 2021 @03:17AM (#28562244)
It's more the psychological aspect of knowing that something is always watching and knowing where you are. There's a creepy-feeling mental overhead to it all.
Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by hilbert42 on Friday September 17, 2021 @05:43AM (#28563192)
Exactly, remember at school when the teacher stood behind your desk and looked over your shoulder whist you were writing something, doing sums etc. The teacher standing there watching evey move you made was a surefire way of you making a mistake.

Even my partner's cat will stop eating its meal if I stare at it whilst it's eating (yes, it's a bit neurotic). (But unlike Google, Facebook, the Government etc. I'm immediately in trouble for teasing the cat.)

Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by flanbiscuit on Thursday September 16, 2021 @02:21PM (#28555226)
I recently set my google location history to auto-delete. At first I wanted to keep it recording my location history forever because "just in case" I needed to know where I was for something that was extremely unimportant. Overall, I've looked at it only handful of times over the many years it has been running so in the end it really helps Google more than it helps me. I might even just turn it off completely. I'm slowly shirking this data-hoarding, "I might need it one day", mentality.
Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by Syonyk on Thursday September 16, 2021 @02:35PM (#28555409)
I love Google Location History.

If you're trying to make a point to someone about how much of a problem data collection, use, abuse, etc, is - link them to the place they can view their own history. It's even more fun if you're with them and can watch the expression of utter horror form as they realize just what, exactly, literally everywhere they've been can tell someone else about them. "Hey, isn't that the kink club out there?"

Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by genewitch on Thursday September 16, 2021 @04:06PM (#28556790)
I check this from time to time and mine has always been completely blank.

Even on my phone when I search for "tires in <city>" it assumes I mean a city in the east coast of the US. Maps/Waze are only marginally better, showing me results 170+ miles from my current location, generally.

I use trackmenot and ad nauseam plugins on my main computer, so my ads are always 100% irrelevant - if I see them at all. Ad nauseam clicks every ad it sees, and stores the banner. It tries to track how many dollars of ad spend its wasted on your behalf, too. I'm somewhere north of $17k at this point lifetime clicks.

I know I'm not winning this fight but I can make it more hilarious for me in the meantime.

Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by iamstupidsimple on Thursday September 16, 2021 @06:46PM (#28558767)
That $17k would've either been rejected as ad fraud in the best case, and just ended up funding the companies you hate at worst.
Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by genewitch on Friday September 17, 2021 @05:48AM (#28563244)
That's assuming they can dis-aggregate my traffic at the F5 gateway well enough[0], otherwise they're just saying all traffic out of that rack in Dallas, TX is invalid. A personal web browser clicking ads on pages i visit doesn't feel very fraudulent.

[0] google routinely can't, and i stopped using search because it made me do photo captchas every time. If google can't, i'm guessing other people are going to have less luck.

Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by iamstupidsimple on Saturday September 18, 2021 @09:06AM (#28575937)
Being Captcha'd likey means that those systems know not to trust your clicks. I seriously doubt you're doing any damage here, and at worst you're helping the companies you dislike.
Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by lotsofpulp on Thursday September 16, 2021 @04:08PM (#28556810)
Would they be horrified of going to a kink club? I feel like the type of person that would go to one, especially these days, would not care.
Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by Kiro on Thursday September 16, 2021 @05:23PM (#28557821)
I've not seen that reaction at all. Everyone gets really excited when I show them.
Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by jjoonathan on Thursday September 16, 2021 @02:44PM (#28555552)
Do we have reason to believe that auto-delete means anything other than "hide it from me, please?"
Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by Y_Y on Thursday September 16, 2021 @02:55PM (#28555697)
At least in the EU, they run the (qualified) risk of a collosal statutory fine. It wouldn't be easy to get them audited (particularly in Ireland where the Data Protection Commission favours discretion over valour), and they'd have to actually get caught. Assuming that they didn't hide the evidence, and the auditors found it, and the necessary hoops were jumped, it could be financially and reputationally painful, even for big G.
Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by endless1234 on Thursday September 16, 2021 @04:21PM (#28557011)
If so, why believe "don't save location history" would mean anything either?
Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by sodality2 on Thursday September 16, 2021 @05:24PM (#28557852)
Difference being "don't save" would mean not being ingested at all; if it is sent to google, a stink could be made (perhaps by sniffing netreqs, looking at GPS requests, etc). Once it's in Google, us peons would have no way to verify any claim.
Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by goodpoint on Thursday September 16, 2021 @06:39PM (#28558705)
No. "don't save" does not mean "don't send to google".

All geolocation based on GSM cells and wifi sends your location continuously.

Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by spoonjim on Thursday September 16, 2021 @08:40PM (#28559688)
How can it be not ingested at all? If Google is giving me turn by turn directions it needs to know where I am.
Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by sodality2 on Thursday September 16, 2021 @10:34PM (#28560595)
Google maps vs tracking location at all times, though.
Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by KingMachiavelli on Thursday September 16, 2021 @02:50PM (#28555632)
I believe according to their privacy policy and from past press statements deleting the data does trigger a real wipe of the data but I think there is a up to 30 day delay (not sure exactly) (wiping data from thousands of servers is actually kind of difficult).

If your threat level is NSA/nation state then this isn't good enough since they probably could get a copy before Google deletes it but it is probably enough to be useless for low level LE.

Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by MomoXenosaga on Thursday September 16, 2021 @03:39PM (#28556361)
At the risk of sounding paranoid but how do we know if they actually pause/delete it?
Re:The new warrant: how US police mine Google for your locat... by nbzso on Thursday September 16, 2021 @02:50PM (#28555624)
But, but this is the only way to deliver consumer products. This is profitable for corporations and shareholders and users have "nothing to hide" and love it.

Did you realize that the world is a step away from total Panopticon (https://shorturl.at/mCJK2).

The "digital natives" don't care at all. The "millenials" are just ignorant. The "X-ers" are fighting to stay relevant and "young". The "boomers" are screaming from the trenches, but the echo is responding with the usual "OK. Boomer".

It is over. This is the Great Reset, created by Davos Elites and embraced by Corporations, Governments and "modern" people of the world.

This is the direct result of corrupted societies which abandoned classical education and liberal arts long time ago.