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Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by DiabloD3 on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @05:02PM (#28531149)
It's only a personal choice if you do not come in contact with anyone else as best as you can.

Else, you run the risk of being infected, not knowing it, passing it onto other people who "have made a personal choice", involuntary manslaughtering them (unless you're religious, then you've biblically murdered them); or, alternatively, you run the risk of ending up in the ICU, and now somebody who did get the vaccine now needs that ICU bed, and they die because you're wasting a perfectly good ICU slot because you "made a personal choice."

Your rights end where the rights of others begin, this is the fundamental rule of modern western society above all others. Be very careful when you think that doesn't apply to you, not all mistakes can be corrected.

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by MarkLowenstein on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @08:09PM (#28533329)
Since vaccinated are spreading this around nearly as much as unvaccinated, the involuntary manslaughter argument is moot. Getting your own vaccine doesn't help other people not die...only you. Even high-vaccination regions are having waves of infection that dwarf previous ones. (Israel, Scotland, Hawaii)

That said, allowing civil suits to punish people that gave you a virus that killed you, would be effective to keep both vaxed and unvaxxed careful and staying at home while sick. Hard to prove where you got it, but just a few successful suits will keep people honest.

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by mike00632 on Wednesday September 15, 2021 @12:24AM (#28535269)
Do you have a source for your claim that the vaccine doesn't help stop the spread of the virus?
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by MarkLowenstein on Thursday September 16, 2021 @01:24AM (#28548358)
I apologize for the delay. It took me awhile to locate my original source: page 18 of https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Mea culpa, though: the chart I remember was of cases not spread/fan-out. I guess it is pretty hard to judge who is spreading it and who is not, in the public. Most articles tend to measure viral shedding or load as an indicator, which does support my stance, but that's science journalism which has been wrong a lot lately. I won't ask any HN reader to make a conclusion based on what I claimed.

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by nradov on Wednesday September 15, 2021 @01:01AM (#28535433)
I encourage everyone to get vaccinated if they can, but vaccination doesn't stop the spread of the virus. It probably slows the spread, which is good, but the magnitude is unclear.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02187-1

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by OneEyedRobot on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @05:15PM (#28531361)
I went down the rabbit hole of looking at COVID cases in Scotland, where vaccinations are quite common. It's worth considering all of the numbers here.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-53511877

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by silent_cal on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @08:01PM (#28533257)
The vaccine doesn't keep you from catching and spreading the virus.
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by BHSPitMonkey on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @09:59PM (#28534303)
It can reduce or minimize the number of cases you spread while infected (i.e. you won't be infected for as long on average), though, and the positive impacts of this at scale are large. (Consider that case numbers grow exponentially, so even preventing e.g. 20% of transmissions in one month will have outsized effects weeks or months later.)
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by silent_cal on Wednesday September 15, 2021 @12:12PM (#28540910)
Prove you're not just guessing.
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by lp0_on_fire on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @05:07PM (#28531226)
> involuntary manslaughtering them

Oh please. The hyperbole is getting real old.

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by lame-robot-hoax on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @05:14PM (#28531331)
Is it though? If it’s a personal choice, why is drunk driving banned, and why do we have seatbelt and helmet laws?

If you know that you feel sick, and haven’t been vaccinated, yet go to work at a nursing home and end up spreading a breakthrough infection that kills an immunocompromised resident, is that not manslaughter? How is it different from knowingly getting in a car when intoxicated, and then causing a deadly accident?

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by lghh on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @05:20PM (#28531453)
> If you know that you feel sick

Considering you can be contagious before you feel sick, I think the point is even more valid.

Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by lp0_on_fire on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @05:39PM (#28531732)
Comparing something completely in your control to a virus that you can still get even with the vaccine is inappropriate a best, disingenuous at worst.
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by DFHippie on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @06:15PM (#28532201)
You can crash your car even while sober. And you can arrive home safely even while drunk. You don't have "complete control" over whether you crash. But the responsible thing to do is exercise what control you do have. Yes you could catch and spread the virus even after vaccinated but it is still irresponsible to disregard this and risk the lives and livelihoods of others. It is a trivial request and the consequences of spreading the virus are non-trivial.
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by subroutine on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @06:16PM (#28532225)
Drinking and driving is banned because it increases the probability of causing harm yourself and others.
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by MatthewMob on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @07:41PM (#28533080)
Neglecting to get the vaccine is discouraged because it increases the probability of causing harm to yourself and others.
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by subroutine on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @09:37PM (#28534118)
Exactly the connection I was helping OP to make. Indeed the parallels are obvious when phrased like this.
Re:Why doesn’t natural immunity count in the US? by OneEyedRobot on Tuesday September 14, 2021 @05:17PM (#28531402)
>and why do we have seatbelt and helmet laws?

I don't have the slightest idea. It would be like making sugar or alcohol illegal as it merely involves the person wearing the seatbelt or helmet.