News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
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Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by polytely on Saturday September 11, 2021 @01:31PM (#28493889)
Not what I wrote at all.

But to respond to your point(?) covid patients that get sick enough to go to the ICU are there for a long time, while heart patients get better (or die) significantly faster, I recently heard an ICU doctor say on TV here (the Netherlands) that a covid ICU bed could help up to 8 heart patients, which makes it extra important to reduce the amount of covid cases.

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Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by polytely on Saturday September 11, 2021 @01:41PM (#28493969)
Yes of course, just make your point already, this is not a chat, try to write a complete post.
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Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by polytely on Saturday September 11, 2021 @01:49PM (#28494051)
>So you're not winning the argument to take away my medical freedom

That wasn't what I was trying to do at all, and I can't really see how you could get that from my initial reply, so I don't think we are going to agree on anything here, have a nice day.

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Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by polytely on Saturday September 11, 2021 @02:39PM (#28494582)
I'm from the Netherlands so not sure about the current US situation, but:

Firstly, Ok: I take full responsibility for advocating for a temporary reduction of rights to stop the spread of a novel virus with the aim of reducing strain on the healthcare system. I also think that we made the right choice, waiting for EMA approval before starting vaccinating.

Right now here about 77% of the people (17,4 million) has been fully vaccinated and everything except nightclubs and big festivals has been reopened. I went to see The Green Knight a couple of weeks ago, didn't need a mask, or proof of vaccination/negative test. People haven't died en-masse from the vaccines, so things are pretty good right now.

There is still a big backlog in delayed care right now, so if the seasonal aspect of covid means we gotta partially shut down some things the next winter, so be it.

Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by toast0 on Saturday September 11, 2021 @01:44PM (#28494004)
Heart disease and cancer have a steady demand for ICU beds at a population level (maybe a little bit peaky for heart disease around stressful times of year like DST changes and family gathering holidays), so demand can be forecast and supply can be adjusted over time to meet the demand.

OTOH, a pandemic with high peaks of demand is hard to plan for. And having excess capacity on hand for such an occasion is hard when everyone is always upset about how expensive healthcare is.

Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by kelnos on Saturday September 11, 2021 @09:31PM (#28497799)
Keeping yourself out of an ICU bed by avoiding a heart attack or getting cancer is likely a lot harder than getting a COVID vaccine.

If we assume that the biggest cause of heart disease is obesity and poor general health-keeping, the solution there is to completely change your lifestyle: new diet, new exercise regimen, etc. While I think people who are at risk should probably do that, that's a much heavier lift than getting a COVID vaccine.

But given that we mostly don't know how to avoid all forms of cancer (aside from things like "don't smoke and you probably won't get lung cancer"), I don't see what point you're trying to make there. I mean, ok, yes, we should all get vaccinated against COVID in order to make it vanishingly unlikely we'll have to take an ICU bed away from a cancer patient (who got cancer through no fault of their own) who might need it.

Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by tommymachine on Saturday September 11, 2021 @10:11PM (#28498015)
It would be interesting to see the numbers on being overweight vs vaccinated, and seeing which is more correlated with covid severity.
Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by kelnos on Sunday September 12, 2021 @12:36AM (#28498652)
No, it really wouldn't be. I mean, from an academic standpoint, sure, maybe that's interesting. But it really has no bearing on the truth that people should get themselves vaccinated, and not doing so puts themselves and others in danger.
Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by tommymachine on Sunday September 12, 2021 @01:32AM (#28498828)
Is that statement provably true for the previously infected?

(Hint: it would be more dangerous to get a shot if you’ve already had it than to not, but it won’t make Fauxi & friends any money if you don’t. Gee, I wonder why they don’t advertise that.)

Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by _drimzy on Saturday September 11, 2021 @10:57PM (#28498244)
So you are going on and on about a hypothesis without any backing numbers, while completely ignoring provided evidence on how the unvaccinated is more likely to end up in ICUs?

Get off your high horse and do your fucking part. People are dying of Covid19, and a lot of people who survive end up with permanent disabilites, while you engage in mental gymnastics with your hypotheticals!

Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by tommymachine on Saturday September 11, 2021 @11:22PM (#28498364)
Apparently writing one sentence is now "going on and on".

It's not mental gymnastics to point out the information overload on one side of this issue, which makes absolutely no medical or scientific sense, yet makes a ton of profit "cents".

Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by tommymachine on Saturday September 11, 2021 @11:24PM (#28498372)
I've already done my part by contracting and beating the virus you're deathly afraid of. I have more powerful immunity than anyone who's taken any of those shots. I don't have to ponder about the numbers on that one.
Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by kelnos on Sunday September 12, 2021 @12:40AM (#28498668)
If that's the opinion of a reputable medical professional that you've personally talked to, then sure, great, good for you. If you're basing this on random things you've read on the internet... well, kinda a shame you're basing health decisions on that.

Given the fact that you've made an absolutist statement about immunity that doesn't track with the studies I've read, I suspect it's sadly the latter.

(Natural immunity may give rise to more mature memory B-cells, which could be better than the memory B-cells you get with vaccination, but the vaccines do provoke your immune system to produce many more antibodies than found in the aftermath of natural infection. So the jury is kinda still out on this.)

Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by tommymachine on Sunday September 12, 2021 @01:43AM (#28498869)
I hope you had a reputable doctor interpret those studies for you in person. I read on CNN.com that it can be dangerous to do online research and think for yourself. I’m not sure if I should believe it though, since a reputable medical professional didn’t read it to me in person. In fact, even reading your comment, I’m not at liberty to reply, since a reputable medical professional didn’t read it to me, and I can’t be sure just what to think without a reputable medical professional telling me, in person, what I should think.
Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by tommymachine on Saturday September 11, 2021 @11:31PM (#28498403)
Guess I'll just get off of my high horse and make sure big Pharma gets paid by the taxpayer for something that not only do I not need, but would weaken the immunity that I have.

The state of the world is obvious from the activity on this forum. If these are supposed to be "intelligent hackers" here, god help the human race.

Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by corpo_punisho on Saturday September 11, 2021 @01:37PM (#28493937)
COVID is incredibly dangerous primarily because of how it is spread, not primarily because sick people are taking up hospital beds.

The pandemic is first and foremost a health issue, not a resource issue.

Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by heavyset_go on Saturday September 11, 2021 @06:49PM (#28496824)
Fatality rates for COVID increase by an order of magnitude when hospitals can't treat COVID patients who would otherwise survive with proper care.
Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by heurisko on Saturday September 11, 2021 @03:57PM (#28495317)
I don’t think that’s true. Covid is dangerous precisely because healthcare systems can be overwhelmed.

If you receive care and have nocomorbid conditions, Covid for most won’t be dangerous, certainly not as dangerous as the 1918 pandemic, which killed young people.

Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by shkkmo on Saturday September 11, 2021 @04:52PM (#28495858)
I think that there is a solid argument that the 1918 epidemic would have killed far fewer people if they had had modern treatments for respiratory distress.
Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by heurisko on Sunday September 12, 2021 @02:24AM (#28499027)
That can't be deduced from my argument at all.

Covid 19 results in mild symptoms for most young people. In comparison, the 1918 pandemic was most deadly if you were young, or old.

There is a qualitative difference between the diseases.

Re:September 11, 2001 media synced in real-time by tommymachine on Saturday September 11, 2021 @01:44PM (#28493996)
So the reports of "triage" problems and overwhelmed ICU units is a fabricated issue?