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Re:OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or... by captainredbeard on Thursday September 09, 2021 @06:15PM (#28475284)
"Avoiding risky sex costs nothing, has insignificant statistical risk, and they are refusing it. That medical treatment could go to someone responsible. Choose not to have safe sex, choose to die at home."
Re:OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or... by toomuchtodo on Thursday September 09, 2021 @06:17PM (#28475291)
No one gets an STD at the grocery store or their workplace from close proximity to the infected. Very few people die from STDs (comparatively speaking to COVID) and they are not overloading hospitals.
Re:OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or... by captainredbeard on Thursday September 09, 2021 @06:25PM (#28475368)
Well, you brought up hospital space availability as the problem, not culpability for spreading it. If we're back to talking about folks spreading it, look at the fact that the vaccine doesn't prevent spread so why are the control freaks in society trying to force this on the rest of us? Sorry, the rest of us are not going along with it just because you think it's a good idea.
Re:OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or... by toomuchtodo on Thursday September 09, 2021 @06:33PM (#28475456)
You are free to make your own choices within the bounds government policy. If that means those who choose not to vaccinate lose their jobs and are ineligible for unemployment insurance, I think that’s reasonable during a public health crisis. Even if vaccination did not reduce transmission rate, it increases survival rate in the event of infection, reducing healthcare system load. If you make a choice to unnecessarily burden a strained system, do not be surprised when that system sheds load in ways you did not expect (crisis standards of care, ie rationing [1] [2] [3]).

I am exhausted that people who share your opinion are dragging the pandemic out for whatever illogical reasoning justifies the beliefs and behavior. Your rights end where someone else’s begin, but apparently these people don’t believe their rights end anywhere, regardless of the harm they cause.

[1] https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/12/09/9443799...

[2] https://www.boisestatepublicradio.org/news/2021-09-07/idaho-...

[3] https://www.doh.wa.gov/Newsroom/Articles/ID/2916/Statement-o...

Re:OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or... by walterbell on Thursday September 09, 2021 @06:56PM (#28475661)
> reducing healthcare system load

Un-scientific mandates affect the supply of healthcare workers, https://tamicam.substack.com/p/are-government-vaccine-mandat...

> It's ironic that the same camp currently blaming persons with acquired (Gold standard) immunity from prior infection of Covid ... for overwhelming medical systems, when by ignoring the actual immunity status of a person, they are undermining the entire medical system? The crisis they are creating goes against every basic principle of Immunology.

> Essential frontline medical workers last year are highly likely to have already been exposed to Covid at one point, so why does no one simply ask for their immune status, instead of “ Vaccine - or no job”? The vaccine does not stop transmission of the virus, as we know. Why are we instead firing all the workers who may not even have any need for the Jab at all, and aren’t willing to jeopardize their own health by taking it?

Re:OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or... by toomuchtodo on Thursday September 09, 2021 @06:59PM (#28475691)
I’d argue you don’t want healthcare workers who don’t believe in vaccination practicing healthcare (90-95% of doctors are vaccinated, for comparison, versus closer to 40-50% for nurses). This is filtering out workers who should be filtered out of the healthcare labor pool, workers who would be in close proximity to patients.

They’ve received other vaccinations to work [1]. They’ve been educated how vaccines work. There is no excuse for being unvaccinated as a healthcare professional.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/phlp/publications/topic/vaccinationlaws....

Re:OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or... by walterbell on Thursday September 09, 2021 @07:04PM (#28475737)
Many healthcare workers know the difference between gold-standard natural immunity, a sterilizing vaccine and non-sterilizing vaccine. It's a false dichotomy to reduce the world to vaccinated/unvaccinated, when vaccination neither stops transmission nor infection.

The most-protected group of people, who pose the least risk to other humans or healthcare systems, are the Covid-recovered, whether vaccinated or unvaccinated.

Re:OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or... by Pyramus on Friday September 10, 2021 @06:23AM (#28479643)
Do you have a source that natural immunity is superior to vaccine-induced? Last time I checked studies showed that at least for the mRNA vaccines two shots was superior to natural immunity, as was natural immunity + mRNA booster shot.

This is not surprising and in line with many other infectious diseases, see e.g. [1].

I only read the term "gold standard immunity" in a US context and it's almost always politically charged.

[1] https://twitter.com/ENirenberg/status/1412865782862725125

Re:OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or... by bgentry on Friday September 10, 2021 @06:32AM (#28479687)
> Do you have a source that natural immunity is superior to vaccine-induced? Last time I checked studies showed that at least for the mRNA vaccines two shots was superior to natural immunity, as was natural immunity + mRNA booster shot.

From this recent study out of Israel: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v...

SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and February of 2021. The increased risk was significant (P<0.001) for symptomatic disease as well. When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected.

To be clear, the study here is talking about immunity 6 months after a final dose. It appears that at least for the Pfizer vaccine, immunity against infection and even symptomatic disease decays fairly rapidly after a couple months. At that time it still appears effective at preventing severe disease and hospitalization, though we might also expect that to decay over the next few months (too early to know).

Natural immunity decays too, but not nearly as rapidly per this study.

Re:OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or... by furgooswft13 on Thursday September 09, 2021 @06:46PM (#28475578)
> You are free to make your own choices within the bounds government policy.

You are free to make your own choices in your prison cell.

> Even if vaccination did not reduce transmission rate, it increases survival rate in the event of infection

Taking away ones livelihood is a great way to increase survival and improve health.

> I am exhausted

Authoritarianism, fascism, and doublespeak are all very exhausting indeed.

Re:OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or... by concordDance on Friday September 10, 2021 @06:28AM (#28479661)
If people had to pay for their own healthcare (thus not burdening public healthcare), should they then be allowed to not take the vaccine?

Also, what's your view on government mandated exercise?

Re:OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or... by toomuchtodo on Friday September 10, 2021 @12:57PM (#28484268)
You would have to pay for not only your healthcare, but any civil damages to someone who was harmed or had a loss of life because you were occupying a bed they needed for a non COVID related malady [1].

Exercise should be prescribed, but not mandated. The overweight and morbidly obese are not overloading medical systems, so it is less of a pressing concern.

[1] https://abc7.com/us-army-veteran-daniel-wilkinson-michelle-p... (US Army vet's mother demands change after son dies of non-COVID illness while waiting for ICU bed)

Re:OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or... by captainredbeard on Saturday September 11, 2021 @12:34PM (#28493304)
> I am exhausted that people who share your opinion

Good, I'm wearing you out. Can't wait for your side to fold.

Re:OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or... by seanmcdirmid on Saturday September 11, 2021 @12:36PM (#28493325)
> I am exhausted that people who share your opinion are dragging the pandemic out for whatever illogical reasoning justifies the beliefs and behavior.

You didn’t paste the whole quote. I guess this is going to be a long pandemic.

Re:OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or... by captainredbeard on Monday September 13, 2021 @11:13AM (#28512500)
Compliance will not end tyranny. This is about power.
Re:OSHA to require employers with 100 employees vaccinate or... by tehwebguy on Friday September 10, 2021 @07:20AM (#28479969)
Do you think our ICU beds are overflowing with STD patients