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Re:Wadler's critique of SICP (1987) by thesz on Thursday August 04, 2011 @12:49PM (#2846705)
So you did first chapter of Scheme book in Haskell. Ie, in a language authors weren't prepared you for. And you get errors you're not expected as authors couldn't prepare you for them.

I think that's pretty straightforward thing that happened with you. The same will be with Scheme if you do some chapters from Learn You A Haskell.

Also, Haskell type system is one of most logical out there. Most type systems are either build around some weak logic with many exceptions (dynamic languages, C++, Java, C#), or just build from some limited number of cases (Ada, VHDL, Verilog).

The Haskell type system incorporates a logic system (some kind of constructive logic, I think). You actually learned that logic while "fighting the compiler" and you did some of first session with "proof assistant" which Haskell compiler/interpreter is.

So I think you're complaining for nothing.

Not that I stopping you, just my thoughts. ;)

Re:Wadler's critique of SICP (1987) by llimllib on Thursday August 04, 2011 @01:13PM (#2846798)
I'm not trying to complain! I'm just saying that the type system is A Thing that people need to learn, and I think that a rigorous type system can be a hindrance to learners. As such, I think Wadler should have mentioned it as a possible downside of his hypothetical world where Abelson and Sussman used Miranda in SICP, even if only to debunk it.
Re:Wadler's critique of SICP (1987) by thesz on Thursday August 04, 2011 @01:39PM (#2846906)
"SICP in Miranda" would prepare reader for type system. So the reader of that imaginary version of SICP wouldn't encounter those roadblocks. And those who read Learn You A Haskell don't encounter ones.
Re:Wadler's critique of SICP (1987) by llimllib on Thursday August 04, 2011 @03:37PM (#2847407)
I challenge both of those assertions. I haven't done LYAH, because I was learning haskell before it existed, but I did nearly every available haskell tutorial when I was learning.

As soon as you step out of bounds, you find strange corners of the type system. It's quite a complex beast, and many of the error messages are cryptic at best.

Re:Wadler's critique of SICP (1987) by thesz on Friday August 05, 2011 @08:20AM (#2849826)
I had two colleagues who done LYAH and one who attacked a program with type level programming without LYAH (because of LYAH non-existense at the moment).

The first two didn't asked me or my colleague about anything type system related too often. After month or so of on-off work on his project one of them finished a complex translator from CPU description into VHDL.

The one who studied Haskell without LYAH did asked us. I attribute it to complexity of program he worked on.

My experience allows me to remain confirmed that proper exposure to Haskell type system greatly lessen associated burden.

I should note that we didn't encounter many errors in our Haskell code. Much less than in code in Java or C#.

Re:Wadler's critique of SICP (1987) by llimllib on Friday August 05, 2011 @08:56AM (#2849901)
An alternative solution: I'm thick! It's consistent with the evidence.