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Re:Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the To... by potatolicious on Thursday August 04, 2011 @12:17AM (#2844522)
Echoing what rayiner said - where are the rich going to go?

Europe is less friendly to the rich - extremely so in the most pleasant of places. China? India? Neither are very pleasant places, and even with truckloads of cash has a hard time competing with the quality of life enjoyed in the US even under onerous taxation.

I think you're not giving enough credit to the American quality of life - it's why my family immigrated here from Asia. While developing Asian countries have seem dramatic improvements in the last two decades, the QOL in most of these countries still pales in comparison.

Just about anywhere someone used to the Western quality of life would want to go would have higher taxes.

Re:Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the To... by lefstathiou on Thursday August 04, 2011 @12:28AM (#2844554)
That's not true. How about Hong Kong or Singapore where you certainly get a western style life with extra benefits: safer, cleaner, live-in maid service, better access to healthcare and a 15-20% all in tax rate. Have you been to Thailand or Indonesia? Sounds ridiculous but this is happening right now. I'm in banking and I hear my clients talk about it all the time. They're doing it as we speak (slowly migrating their business operations and key personell)

The thing about entrepreneurs is that they are an irrational bunch. I could introduce you to a couple of people who would rather put all their money into a boat and sink it than pay it as additional tax. Sounds crazy but from a growing number of people's perspectives, the problem isnt excess taxation, its excess taxation coupled with gross mismanagement. Nobody likes seeing their money go to waste, especially to causes they dont agree with (ie union pensions for government employees that retire after 20 years of service).

Re:Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the To... by econgeeker on Thursday August 04, 2011 @07:15AM (#2845449)
Good Point.

For instance, New Zealand. Nice place. Great People. First class quality of life-- better than the USA. Higher taxes than the USA in many ways, but the government is so much less corrupt that the taxes are much less of a burden. You don't mind paying when you see you're getting value for the money.

Re:Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the To... by rayiner on Thursday August 04, 2011 @01:40AM (#2844781)
I was born in Thailand and go back to Bangkok regularly. Unless you want to live in isolation (maybe with your banker buddies), there is no comparison between living in the US and living in Thailand.
Re:Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the To... by jwhitlark on Thursday August 04, 2011 @12:55AM (#2844633)
Re:Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the To... by Jeema3000 on Thursday August 04, 2011 @10:15AM (#2846045)
"Nobody likes seeing their money go to waste, especially to causes they dont agree with (ie union pensions for government employees that retire after 20 years of service)."

So the ultra rich obstruct attempts at making the system more efficient (i.e. getting rid of the for-profit healthcare industry in America which costs the average American more and delivers worse outcomes than other industrialized countries) and then use that as an excuse to not pay more taxes? That's a pretty good racket they got going there. The world's smallest violin must be playing for all those poor downtrodden multi-millionaire bankers...

Re:Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the To... by econgeeker on Thursday August 04, 2011 @07:13AM (#2845444)
There are many places an american can go. Unlike the USA, most countries don't tax your worldwide income. So, for instance, you could become a citizen of any of the EU countries that don't tax worldwide income, and earn your income outside that country tax free (and live outside it as well.)

I know of several countries within the EU where you can be a citizen and pay essentially no taxes, or extremely low taxes. These are very pleasant places as well. For instance, one location is the side of a very nice lake in switzerland (Campoin d' Italia) and Andorra has some nice tax advantages, and one of the best climates in Europe. Monaco is not bad, though expensive for my tastes, while Licthenstein, Austria, Switzerland, and all this british islands whose existence is for purposes of avoiding taxes aren't too bad either.

The idea that you can't have a high quality of life in China or India compared to the USA seems silly to me, but I haven't lived in either of those countries. There are many countries in Latin, South America, Asia and Europe where you can have as high a quality of life as the USA, or higher, and at much less cost than the USA.

I think the idea that anywhere desirable is worse than the USA is a kind of parochial perception. Of course ones preferences can vary, but, for instance, in many ways much of eastern europe is nicer than the USA, even though they are "poorer". There are many countries that are in many ways richer, or where you can have a better quality of life at the same or less cost.

I just think that people in every country believe that their country s superior to others, and can't imagine how anyone would want to live in another country... but they also haven't experienced those other countries.

I've visited a lot of countries, and have yet to visit one that was terrible, and about %50 of them are better than the USA in noticeable ways, and the ones that aren't as good, aren't as good in ways that aren't really all that bad.

Re:Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the To... by Andrew_Quentin on Thursday August 04, 2011 @05:26PM (#2847863)
"I know of several countries within the EU where you can be a citizen and pay essentially no taxes, or extremely low taxes."

If so, then why have the rich not moved already? Indeed, why have you not gone to these places? I mean, no tax, whether on capital gain or income, is better than any tax is it not?

Re:Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the To... by econgeeker on Thursday August 04, 2011 @10:21PM (#2848715)
The rich are moving, and there's quite an exodus going on. I'm part of it.

Of course it is harder for the super-rich. The US government is not going to let you leave the country with a $5B fortune.

Re:Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the To... by keeptrying on Thursday August 04, 2011 @01:44AM (#2844792)
I dont think your right. I've been in Bangalore for 2 months and its hard to decide where I have a better quality of life. Here I can rent a brand new 3 bedroom with gym and swimming pool for $400. Driver for $200 a month. Hospitals are cheaper and about as well equipped. You get all channels including HBO for $5 a month. Savings rate in a CD is 10%.

With the rampant unemployment in the US - I cant see why you would consider the US to be the higher quality of life right now.

Re:Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the To... by CaptainDecisive on Thursday August 04, 2011 @06:50AM (#2845385)
Remember we're talking about the top 1% or 0.1% of the population here. The unemployment rate simply doesn't enter their quality of life equation. But quality of life is a big deal for rich people.

There are a number of surveys (Mercer, Economist, International Living etc) that rank countries according to quality of life factors and it's always the same places at the top of the list: Western Europe, Australia and New Zealand, North America, maybe Singapore and Japan. These are all, unsuprisingly, expensive places to live.

Wealthy people immigrating is a global phenomenon too; a few months ago there was a spate of news articles regarding rich Chinese looking to get out of China due to the low quality of life (eg http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2077139,00.htm...).

Re:Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the To... by keeptrying on Thursday August 04, 2011 @03:32PM (#2847390)
If we are talking the top 1% then they can buy a building in Bangalore and put a helipad on it to fly them to the airport where they can travel wherever they want.

Ambani bought himself a building and a helipad to commute to his office. That way you've fixed the commute problem too.

Bangalore weather is also pretty awesome. I wish I had my kite and board ... its been windy the whole past month ...

Re:Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the To... by daemin on Thursday August 04, 2011 @02:07AM (#2844861)
Monaco does not have an income tax and I believe it's located in Europe, in a rather nice part of Europe.
Re:Who Rules America: An Investment Manager's View on the To... by namdnay on Thursday August 04, 2011 @04:27AM (#2845129)
Monaco is quite nice, if you're willing to live in a flat. If you want a nice garden, maybe a few trees and a pool, you can pretty much forget it.