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Re:Clarifications regarding arrest of climate activist by ignoramous on Monday September 06, 2021 @12:10PM (#28435119)
One possible mitigation to this would be to let customers deploy ProtonMail's open-source client [0] themselves to wherever (as one example, this is something that TermPair implements [1]).

[0] https://github.com/ProtonMail/WebClients

[1] https://github.com/cs01/termpair/#static-hosting

Re:Clarifications regarding arrest of climate activist by dane-pgp on Monday September 06, 2021 @02:03PM (#28436329)
Another possible mitigation is SecureBookmarks[0] which uses SRI integrity hashes and Data URLs to ensure that you always get the same web app.

At worst, this means the security level fits the TOFU model (Trust On First Use), which is better than the default BEEF model, which stands for "Beware Each and Every Fetch".

[0] https://coins.github.io/secure-bookmark/

Re:Clarifications regarding arrest of climate activist by MzHN on Tuesday September 07, 2021 @06:51AM (#28443196)
Thanks for this. I've been toying with this idea myself in the context of Signal's refusal to implement a web client, due to web clients missing TOFU. Glad to see it's not as crazy of an idea as I felt it was.

I wonder why this topic seems so unpopular. Nobody cares that currently it is impossible to make a secure web app?

From your other comments I also found webext-signed-pages, and the issue asking if they could make it secure, and I'm amazed that they dismissed it. In their readme they claim to protect against malicious and compromised servers, but in reality they don't, so what is the point..?

Re:Clarifications regarding arrest of climate activist by dane-pgp on Tuesday September 07, 2021 @11:33AM (#28446067)
People do care, but it's a hard problem to solve well without the help of browser makers. I don't know why Mozilla aren't trying to move the web forward in this way, but the usual argument is that browsers shouldn't implement features that web developers aren't going to use, which causes a bit of a chicken and egg problem.

The main disadvantages of SecureBookmarks are that the address bar contains the Data URL (rather than a trusted domain, with a padlock) and it is difficult to upgrade a bookmark. Technically, though, it should be possible for the server to keep a record of the latest version the user has opted in to, and that value could be signed by the user's password which the server never sees. That way only the initial web app bootstrapping code is not upgradeable.

I agree that the response from the Signed Pages devs has been disappointing, but for balance I should say that their claim seems to be that protecting against downgrades would necessarily prevent gradual deployments of complex web apps. I'm not convinced about that, but haven't looked deeply into the technological limitations. In any case, the lack of downgrade protection doesn't make the extension useless, since it improves the security of web apps from having to trust an online TLS key to trusting an offline PGP key.

Re:Clarifications regarding arrest of climate activist by upofadown on Monday September 06, 2021 @12:54PM (#28435622)
Mailvelope is basically Protonmail's OpenPGP javascript client done as a browser plugin.
Re:Clarifications regarding arrest of climate activist by ncphil on Monday September 06, 2021 @01:23PM (#28435920)
Mailvelope (https://github.com/mailvelope/mailvelope) is an open source extension for Chrome and Firefox that allows users to use openpgp encryption with any webmail provider. Unfortunately, I have only one contact who has corresponded with me using pgp. But two others (both activists) use ProtonMail (my only reason for having an account on the service) -- but not Tor (their ProtonMail use predates the latest "explainer").

As several others here have written, the vast majority of people don't care about their (or your) privacy: so most of our contacts are just more holes in a very leaky boat.

When it comes to email, I'm going to go out on a limb and say people should _never_ trust it for sensitive communications. Message content itself can be protected by pgp encryption (if people would bother to use it), but there's no watertight way to consistently avoid the kind of relationship mapping that nation states and transnational corporations have been doing for the last two decades. That game is already over, and Big Brother won -- no matter who you use for email.

Re:Clarifications regarding arrest of climate activist by upofadown on Monday September 06, 2021 @04:49PM (#28437947)
Email isn't much worse at leaking metadata than most of the things people use for messaging and is better than many:

* https://articles.59.ca/doku.php?id=em:anonemail

Ultimately, for the strongest privacy protection you need to go to something offline, like email:

* https://articles.59.ca/doku.php?id=em:emailvsim

Obviously not everyone needs the highest level of protection, but the fact still needs to be acknowledged.

Re:Clarifications regarding arrest of climate activist by blitzar on Monday September 06, 2021 @04:45PM (#28437895)
> Message content itself can be protected by pgp encryption (if people would bother to use it)

The message might be encrypted, but if they get to the other guy and offer him a sweet enough deal, there is no protection. There are two copies of the content out there, if it is that serious, why leave the papertrail.

People like to believe they are subverting the CIA snooping on all their very important 'activism', but in reality the most they are doing is opting out of google using their emails to market them shit they were never going to buy in the first place.