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Re:Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019) by polytely on Monday September 06, 2021 @04:58AM (#28431767)
But isn't all this progress bought with the destruction of our environment? It isn't sustainable at all and we are basically betting we can switch to a sustainable model before everything starts breaking down.
Re:Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019) by Isinlor on Monday September 06, 2021 @05:51AM (#28432062)
Climate change is no good, and we have to do better, but the past was even worse.

Try to imagine near 50% child mortality on a global scale in 1800.

That's the past. Today even the poorest regions in Africa have "only" ~15% child mortality.

Re:Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019) by birksherty on Tuesday September 07, 2021 @12:36AM (#28440975)
The better things will not remain so for long. Many of the industry and technical progress came at a huge cost. It's the future generation who will bear it. Data conclusively indicates real-world climate change is tracking the IPCC's worst case scenario.

https://youtu.be/fliCxyAwBWU

Re:Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019) by Gravityloss on Monday September 06, 2021 @01:08PM (#28435778)
Well, many things in the environment are a lot worse now than 100 years ago, but some things are better. While there was much less industrial production, it was more polluting per output. Waste water cleaning, industrial process cleaning or in general taking care of garbage has improved a lot in the last sixty years in developed countries.
Re:Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019) by birksherty on Monday September 06, 2021 @01:51PM (#28436208)
Why per output? To make it look better? Total is worse, more co2, more pollution, more oil spill in oceans, plastic in oceans even inside animals etc. It's better just for a selfish species.
Re:Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019) by Gravityloss on Monday September 06, 2021 @03:40PM (#28437184)
Well, in many places, since population and consumption per capita has plateaued, total pollution has reduced a lot. Some local anecdotes follow.

Waste water cleaning plants were built, so human excrement wasn't dumped to the sea anymore. At some point district heating replaced coal and wood burned in houses. Double and triple glazing arrived. The metro started operating in the eighties, replacing a lot of buses. Lead gasoline was banned in the nineties as well. Cars got electronic ignition, fuel injection and catalytic converters. Diesel engines started having tightening regulations every few years. Waste water treatment was upgraded to even remove nitrogen. New bicycle highways were made, the metro is being extended, tram lines are being built, and just a few weeks ago many diesel bus lines were replaced by Chinese electric ones.

Some things have gotten better, some things have gotten worse. But not everything has gotten worse.

Re:Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019) by birksherty on Tuesday September 07, 2021 @12:22AM (#28440904)
Some things are better only for humans. For every other species it's worse. The whole ecosystem is worse than ever. The better things will also become useless in few dacade as the climate is tracking the worst case scenario of the IPCC report.
Re:Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019) by Gravityloss on Tuesday September 07, 2021 @06:09AM (#28442972)
The wastewater cleaning is certainly better for marine life.
Re:Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019) by birksherty on Tuesday September 07, 2021 @12:04PM (#28446381)
That's only one thing, overall there are way too much oil leaks and plastic in oceans, so it's silly to say things are better. Then there are things that are hidden like https://www.cbsnews.com/news/california-environmental-disast...

and https://v.redd.it/ayd4itr1kqg71

Marine life halved in few decades https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/marine-wil...

Re:Are we on the road to civilisation collapse? (2019) by Gravityloss on Tuesday September 07, 2021 @04:23PM (#28449435)
Yeah, of course. But some areas in the sea, like close to the city where I live, are in much better shape than they were before I was born. There's plenty of data on that.

The sea in total is not doing great, because of agricultural emissions.