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Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by babyshake on Friday September 03, 2021 @11:49PM (#28411917)
Specifically I meant specifying your own preferred gender pronouns in certain contexts. When enough of your peers do it, it feels downright strange to not do it even if you don't imagine anyone would have any problem deducing your gender and you wouldn't feel offended if they did happen to use the wrong gender for you. Of course it is completely fine for people to share preferred prounouns. But as pg has said the problem is with the things you not allowed to say, or alternately the things you are required to say and/or do.

Being required to, say, share drinking fountains or pools with people of another race should not be compared to this. One is about allowing people to co-exist with you, the other is about complying with a strongly encouraged communal display of ideology. There are obvious comparisons to make but you can use your imagination about what those are.

Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by feurio on Saturday September 04, 2021 @08:00AM (#28414298)
> When enough of your peers do it, it feels downright strange to not do it

Really? Plenty of my friends on social media and a few work colleagues state their pronouns, but I've never even remotely felt that I need to.

Is it perhaps that you are quite suggestible?

[dead]
Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by _Nat_ on Saturday September 04, 2021 @01:24AM (#28412298)
Sounds like you're describing the word "Negro" as a [scapegoat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scapegoat): it was cast as a symbol of evil so that it could be canceled as such.

I guess that's a way to see the basic tension there: some folks might argue that using scapegoats can help society move on, while others might object on the basis that the goat wasn't actually evil.

Alternatively, we can see switching away from the word "Negro" as a rebranding effort, to retire prior literature and reduce historical associations.

Either way.. I guess that what can seem weird about such social-engineering maneuvers is that they don't make any sense if we assume that people are ideal logical-thinkers; mechanically, they're more like side-channel attacks or emotional manipulation. And.. I guess folks might vary in how agreeable they might find well-intentioned emotional-manipulation.

Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by newacct583 on Saturday September 04, 2021 @05:07PM (#28419215)
> some folks might argue that using scapegoats can help society move on, while others might object [...]

Right, but in this particular instance what actually happened is that we just moved on by building consensus around a new paradigm. No one uses the word anymore, and nothing awful happened.

Therefore I argue that similar hand wringing about gender pronouns is going to turn out equally bland. It's fine. Just relax. Society isn't falling apart, you're just being socially awkward. And in fifty years everyone will think the antiwoke conservatives were just being ridiculous.

Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by _Nat_ on Sunday September 05, 2021 @03:22PM (#28426971)
Eh.. do you have your astrological-signs on your profiles? If not, why not add them in solidarity with those who are deeply emotionally invested in seeing the world through that lens? Not only would it help them feel validated, knowing your astrological-sign would help them better understand you and know how to interact with you.

At the same time.. not everyone wants to have to play along. A lot of new identity-trends emerge (and reemerge over time and in different places), giving adherents ways to self-conceptualize who they are as well as rules for how to interact with others. Some trends get really popular and can get a lot of true-believers, while others don't really get into them.

Can you understand how both sides feel? This is, can you understand both what it'd feel like to be someone deeply invested in the latest trend in spirituality, and can you likewise understand what it'd feel like to want to give the latest trend in spirituality a pass?

If this is the first trend you've seen, then it may seem like this big, huge thing that everyone should adopt. But you ask about 50-years from now? ..that's a long time for a trend to remain relevant, even if you're currently in a sub-culture that's super into it.

Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by watwut on Saturday September 04, 2021 @02:10AM (#28412525)
I remember Fredrik Douglass article in which he complained about negro word being used. It offended him.

And that was prior civil war, when he advocated against slavery. Which, quite a few people argued is a good thing.

Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by _Nat_ on Saturday September 04, 2021 @06:01PM (#28419721)
Fredrick Douglass appears to have liked the term "Negro" [1]:

> The form of the negro —[I use the term negro, precisely in the sense that you use the term Anglo Saxon; and I believe, too, that the former will one day be as illustrious as the latter] [...]

Would you happen to recall where you may've seen Douglass complaining about it?

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1: Frederick Douglass, "The claims of the Negro, ethnologically considered", 1854-07-12. PDF-page 16: https://tile.loc.gov/storage-services/service/rbc/rbaapc/079...

Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by EvilEy3 on Saturday September 04, 2021 @02:31AM (#28412627)
And? What's your point?
Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by newacct583 on Saturday September 04, 2021 @05:08PM (#28419232)
I think it might have been that one of the great thinkers of nineteenth century abolitionism weighed in on exactly this subject and had something relevant to say? I mean... it's not like he was quoting someone on reddit here.