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Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by wisty on Friday September 03, 2021 @10:23PM (#28411530)
See "concept creep" - https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2016-08154-001

Abstract:

> Many of psychology's concepts have undergone semantic shifts in recent years. These conceptual changes follow a consistent trend. Concepts that refer to the negative aspects of human experience and behavior have expanded their meanings so that they now encompass a much broader range of phenomena than before. This expansion takes “horizontal” and “vertical” forms: concepts extend outward to capture qualitatively new phenomena and downward to capture quantitatively less extreme phenomena. The concepts of abuse, bullying, trauma, mental disorder, addiction, and prejudice are examined to illustrate these historical changes. In each case, the concept's boundary has stretched and its meaning has dilated. A variety of explanations for this pattern of “concept creep” are considered and its implications are explored. I contend that the expansion primarily reflects an ever-increasing sensitivity to harm, reflecting a liberal moral agenda. Its implications are ambivalent, however. Although conceptual change is inevitable and often well motivated, concept creep runs the risk of pathologizing everyday experience and encouraging a sense of virtuous but impotent victimhood.

The full article has a bit more nuance. It points out that intolerance to minor forms of harm has both pros and cons.

Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by alex_munroe on Saturday September 04, 2021 @03:18AM (#28412845)
> I contend that the expansion primarily reflects an ever-increasing sensitivity to harm

Or maybe once you've weaponized a concept, it's tempting to use it as much as you can.

When being a nerd stopped being shameful and started being cool, all the cool kids started calling themselves nerds for liking Avengers and Harry Potter - why wouldn't you claim the social points that are just lying around?

And when you live in a society that rewards victimhood, when calling someone a bully gives you power over them - of course people will jump at any chance to call themselves a victim.

Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by tablespoon on Saturday September 04, 2021 @02:34AM (#28412639)
> This expansion takes “horizontal” and “vertical” forms: concepts extend outward to capture qualitatively new phenomena and downward to capture quantitatively less extreme phenomena.... Although conceptual change is inevitable and often well motivated, concept creep runs the risk of pathologizing everyday experience and encouraging a sense of virtuous but impotent victimhood.

Also the dilution in the "downward" direction denies the people with the original, more-serious issues the vocabulary to deal with their unique problems and will eventually engender skepticism in large parts of the general public (e.g. if "abuse" expands to encompass extremely common experiences, saying "I was a abused" ceases to have much meaning, and you end up with nonsense like "Were you just abused, or were use abused abused?").

Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by AnthonyMouse on Saturday September 04, 2021 @02:58AM (#28412769)
And in the meantime it creates injustices in the other direction, e.g. when Julian Assange is accused of "rape" which the public understands to mean a particular very serious thing, but Sweden uses a definition that encompasses much more than that very serious thing. Meanwhile a thousand articles are published containing his name and the word "rape" together in the headline.
Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by kongin on Saturday September 04, 2021 @07:46AM (#28414228)
It already happened with rape.

We need a separate word for leering, groping, fondling, sex with dubious consent, and violently beating someone during penetration without consent.

Rape used to mean only the last thing and it was regarded as basically the worst form of assault short of murder since it included every possible form of assault.

Today it's moved to fondling and people are trying to make it include leering. Using the same legal punishments for something that is clearly different makes very little sense and normalizes rape in the long term.

Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by zpeti on Saturday September 04, 2021 @08:11AM (#28414366)
Funny how you are getting downvoted, I can guess the thinking behind it.

But you are right. The way rape is being treated now is like saying an accidental traffic accident manslaughter should be punished like a serial killer. It’s just not the same and it’s not fair.

This in no way makes groping or leering acceptable. But it’s still completely different to violent rape penetrative assault.

Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by the_rectifier on Saturday September 04, 2021 @09:59AM (#28415154)
> Rape used to mean only the last thing and it was regarded as basically the worst form of assault

No, it did not. That's why you find courts always charged offenders for multiple different crimes when they are carried out together: rape, assault, kidnapping, life threats...

Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by luckylion on Saturday September 04, 2021 @11:03AM (#28415717)
It's much clearer in German. Rape = Vergewaltigung. It contains gewalt = violence. Stuff like "rape by deception" as a court ruled in Israel because a Jewish Israeli woman had sex with a man she though to be Jewish but wasn't shouldn't be considered rape (I'd argue being the wrong ethnicity while having consensual sex shouldn't be a crime at all).

Now we have rape and we also have rape rape, like, the real rape.

Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by aeoleonn on Saturday September 04, 2021 @06:58PM (#28420142)
Some even consider the financial rape of divorce.

And quantitatively speaking, surely there is some amount of money, which when lost in divorce, is tantamount to the original definition of rape.

(That is, a thought experiment whereby a person might decide a certain amount of money is worth the allowance/aversion of rape of the said bargainer-- such a threshold is different for each person but arguably represents an approximation of a financial quantification of rape-- which, perhaps that amount of money, when lost in divorce, can thereby arguably be considered financial rape)

Especially given that in public health administration, life and health is quantified in monetary terms.

Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by bambataa on Saturday September 04, 2021 @04:32AM (#28413240)
I have noticed this with “victim blaming”. I understood it to refer fairly specifically to sexual assault victims being blamed for “asking for it” by wearing a skirt or whatever.

Now I see it being used in relationship advice subreddits and agony aunt columns to basically mean “don’t dare disagree with me” when someone decides that they were the victim in some some dispute.

Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by rdtwo on Saturday September 04, 2021 @10:47AM (#28415600)
Victim blaming is still acceptable in our culture except the victim has to fall into a certain demographic.
Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by spangry on Saturday September 04, 2021 @09:29AM (#28414904)
Sounds very similar to "Prevalence-induced concept change in human judgment" - https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.aap8731

> Why do some social problems seem so intractable? In a series of experiments, we show that people often respond to decreases in the prevalence of a stimulus by expanding their concept of it. When blue dots became rare, participants began to see purple dots as blue; when threatening faces became rare, participants began to see neutral faces as threatening; and when unethical requests became rare, participants began to see innocuous requests as unethical. This “prevalence-induced concept change” occurred even when participants were forewarned about it and even when they were instructed and paid to resist it. Social problems may seem intractable in part because reductions in their prevalence lead people to see more of them.

Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by evv555 on Saturday September 04, 2021 @10:44AM (#28415572)
See syllogisms. Technically a battle against "whiteness" is not the same as a battle against "white". But in practice the syllogism makes the two indifferentiable.
Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by DaiPlusPlus on Saturday September 04, 2021 @02:53AM (#28412738)
> I contend that the expansion primarily reflects an ever-increasing sensitivity to harm, reflecting a liberal moral agenda.

I don't feel comfortable with anyone using the term "liberal moral agenda" unironically because of culture-specific connotations: for starters, it's a very US-specific phrase which will have attached meanings that would be lost or misinterpreted by people unfamiliar with how the term "liberal" specifically relates to US political discourse - and the hugely negative (to downright toxic) connotations attached to the label "liberal moral agenda" by the reactionary right-wing - which all make conversations like these impossible to have.

Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by clavicat on Sunday September 05, 2021 @12:13AM (#28421577)
Translation: it’s bad PR for my tribe.

One of the privileges of occupying a position of hegemony is that you get to instruct your subjects in how they are allowed to refer to power, and pathologize expressions that are offensive to it. Liberals have all these rules about how you are allowed to describe liberals—the idea that we should observe similar courtesies when describing the “reactionary right-wing” as you pejoratively put it is, naturally, absurd.

So even an anodyne description like “liberal moral agenda” of what is objectively a moral agenda informed by liberal priorities becomes verboten, simply because it allows its adversaries to vocalize their opposition to it. Depriving the opposition of their own vocabulary and replacing it with one of your making is a classic move—anyone who fails to update their dictionary marks themselves as an enemy.

Someone is indeed making conversation impossible to have, but whose fault is that, exactly?

Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by inkblotuniverse on Saturday September 04, 2021 @04:13AM (#28413146)
How would that make conversations impossible to have? Just talk to the reactionary right-wingers about what they see as the liberal moral agenda.

(Of course there's a liberal moral agenda- there's an X moral agenda for every X).

Re:How did American “wokeness” jump from elite schools to ev... by nathias on Saturday September 04, 2021 @05:17AM (#28413459)
leaky abstractions