I have been a proponent of GrapheneOS, but seeing this on HN has made me uneasy:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28095033 (Log in to HN and enable "showdead" in your HN profile to see all comments)

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28095108

At that time, I wasn't entirely sure what was going on, but I did some more research and found this:

- https://github.com/AOSPAlliance/README/commit/cbd2a95cba7c2a...

- https://web.archive.org/web/20210403012439/https://freenode....

This kind of behavior is limiting the success of GrapheneOS, and there needs to be a Linus-style intervention (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18000698) to get the project back on good terms with the rest of the Android ROM community.

> I have been a proponent of GrapheneOS

It's common for CalyxOS folks to claim to be a proponent / user of GrapheneOS or member of our community in order to spread misinformation about it or act badly in order to make the project look bad. You saying that doesn't make it true. It has become quite extreme:

https://github.com/bromite/bromite/discussions/1186

> https://github.com/AOSPAlliance

AOSP Alliance is simply CalyxOS and they made a unilateral decision to kick us out of the organization after we brought up the misinformation and harassment they've engaged in towards GrapheneOS. They invented completely false claims and their highly dishonest and malicious behavior towards us including this incident where cdesai (lead developer of CalyxOS) churned out lies about and unilaterally kicked us out of a 'collaborative' project without consulting anyone else is a clear example of their behavior.

> This kind of behavior is limiting the success of GrapheneOS, and there needs to be a Linus-style intervention (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18000698) to get the project back on good terms with the rest of the Android ROM community.

That's what needs to happen with CalyxOS and their relentless, vicious attacks on GrapheneOS including here, and including you spreading them on their behalf. They've engaged in substantial bullying and harassment targeting me in particular and we have ample evidence of that including the screenshots / logs where the leader of the organization (Nick) engages in vicious bullying targeting me for my depression and attempting to gaslight me repeatedly over a period of months. He very explicitly pretended to be a friend, as did cdesai, on order to get in a position where they could cause more harm to us and myself in particular.

Since you're the founder and lead developer of GrapheneOS, your unfounded accusations against other HN users are tarnishing the credibility of the project. There is no justification for any of these attacks (from the links above) that you posted on HN:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28099846

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28101158

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28101118

(Log in to HN and enable "showdead" in your profile to view them.)

Branding people who disagree with you as "malicious" and "spreading misinformation", and accusing them of being affiliates of other projects, will earn GrapheneOS more opposition than support. I support just about any FOSS project, but I will never endorse the type of hostility that's being shown here.

Please reconsider the way you communicate publicly. HN and other forums are full of potential GrapheneOS users, and toning down the abrasiveness would only serve to improve the adoption of GrapheneOS.

Heh, so I figured it was some random followers, but strcat seems to actually be the founder:

https://github.com/thestinger

https://daniel.micay.dev/

Which is honestly surprised me.

Why is that everyone who disagrees with you is automatically 'engaging in bullying'? Do you not see the irony here?

I don't see anything wrong there. But I thought Linus' behavior was fine as well. Perhaps I'm in the minority.

Or say (OpenBSD) Theo-style?

I doubt that Micay gives a good goddamn about the rest of the Android "ROM" scene — the ones that can rarely allow a secure boot, these are the ones we're referencing, right?

That's fine, the project devs of GrapheneOS (I assume that's who Micay is?) can do what they please, but when your comments adds needless disparaging remarks, it outlines the exact point I made above. When I see this, I really don't want to be associated with such a community, nor would I recommend it to anyone else.

> disparaging remarks

Mentioning a project breaking the security model of the project they're kang'ing is disparaging?

Have a good day, there.

I've been doing CyanogenMod for years, and since become a director at LineageOS.

I've never heard anything akin to " malicious organization/project that's involved in spreading misinformation about GrapheneOS and harassing our developers" and if I were I'd have no problem with going around smacking some of my friends ( some I've known since ~2014 ) that work on the project.

Nowadays most of custom ROM developers are chill and there's really nothing like the old "wars", everyone is "friend" with other projects. The issues arise with these people that you called "evangelists", and I couldn't agree more. It seems like a cult. And it's always on these "super" security/privacy oriented projects.

> I've been doing CyanogenMod for years, and since become a director at LineageOS.

Thank you for all the work you have contributed to.

> I've never heard anything akin to " malicious organization/project that's involved in spreading misinformation about GrapheneOS and harassing our developers" and if I were I'd have no problem with going around smacking some of my friends ( some I've known since ~2014 ) that work on the project.

That matches what I have seen with Mainline Linux devs. We all have our preferences, but we all have common goals in mind and want to help each other.

Indeed, everyone works in its own way. Most on this scene started because people had obscene support by some OEM, so just for personal interest. But after a while you see the whole community behind it and you don't have much of a choice to start sharing your work and goals with other people.

GrapheneOS attacks on other projects is well documented. They have went to the extent of trying to get a Monero community member removed by harassing them [1]. Techlore has documented some of the more nefarious actions [2]. GrapheneOS is currently involved in a dispute with CalyxOS as well.

1 - https://sethforprivacy.com/posts/community-drama-and-mobile-...

2 - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx7CZ-2Bajg

Two people just collected stuff said by others out of context does not make it documentation of anything.

It sure does -- and your throwaway status is suspect.

This is just one example (linked below) but I've seen a fair bit of this type of behaviour just specifixally from the project founder/leader. There does seem to be a lot of other more level-headed folk involved with the project too however so not sure how insurmountable the problem is.

https://github.com/Peter-Easton/GrapheneOS-Knowledge/issues/...

> I can't tell if they are developers or not, but I have seen what I'll refer to as "evangelists" of GrapheneOS spread a lot of misinformation about LineageOS and Mainline Linux phones, then when ignore technical arguments and block people who raise those technical arguments.

This is completely untrue and is you trying to spin your regular persistent attacks on us into us doing something wrong. We aren't spreading any misinformation about LineageOS. AOSP can use mainline Linux kernels and traditional Linux distributions often use Android kernels so there's another an example of muddying the waters.

> After seeing it a few times, it really makes me uneasy to use GrapheneOS. Heck, I switched back to LineageOS because of this behavior.

It's you engaging in this behavior.

> In the Linux phone community, we all have our preferences (I use Mobian and am a Mobian Dev), but we are very cooperative and friendly to one another. For example, I go out of my way to make sure all of my projects work on other OSes/DEs, and I am just as welcome in the PostmarketOS developer community as I am in the Mobian community as I am in the Mobile Fedora community. I personally consider quite a few of the pmOS devs to be my friend, as well as the Fedora devs I work with.

You're acknowledging right here that you're a developer in those projects and here you are acting maliciously towards GrapheneOS with falsified claims about it. That's pretty unfortunate. It's pretty sad that you folks show up whenever it's mentioned to attack it. We'll be contacting those projects about your behavior here and elsewhere. We do not consider it to be those projects doing something wrong and expect that the others involved in them don't want you spreading FUD about GrapheneOS and starting a conflict with it.

Heh, youre actually the founder?

https://github.com/thestinger

https://daniel.micay.dev/

I'm surprised to be honest.

Micay seems to be the productive nerd that got ripped off by the businessman.

Never had such an extremely solid android rom.

But Anuprita and a bunch of other manchildren trying to save from misinformation by flak-ing James (the business guy) lets them look bad.

Imo this is a case of asperger + frustration.

Sorry, I don't know who any of these people are, so it makes your comment very confusing.

Your statements are quite general and not much substance can be attributed to it unless you give some solid evidence as to why or what was said of LineageOS/Linux that hurt your feelings. If you are merely referring to the discussions in the room about the shortcomings of the above mentioned OS/Kernel security-wise then this is just a reflection of the frustration people face with security in Linux. You didn't even bother to add some relevant quotes. And I dont know, but we rarely talk about LineageOS and maybe someone said something about it in a disparaging way when someone new to the room must have brought up the topic of lineage OS and privacy/security.

I dont know how Graphene OS has anything to do with your judgement of the developers behavior. He is quiet a reasonable person ,helps people out a lot. Anyone who comes to the matrix room with genuine interest knows that. There are of course trouble-makers who get themselves banned and then go around the internet spreading ill-will.

I dont know of anyone who was blocked because they just made technical arguments about linux phones and got blocked. It always comes down to someone shilling some linux phone, calling it more secure and distracting everyone in the room with weird conspiratorial messages. So if you know of a situation where you or anyone you know were merely making technical points about linux phones/mainline linux in some argument about some aspect of those projects and someone blocked you or accosted you please tell us here. We take care that we act in a civil manner in the room and try to have fruitful rational discussions and do not tolerate hot-blooded-loud mouthed "evangelists"

Two things:

- You seemed to make an account specifically to respond to me. Is there a reason you did that?

- I debated if i wanted to call out specific instances or not, but many of them are personal ones and I didn't want to dox anyone. Based on the replies I have gotten, it seems unnecessary to do it now.