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Re:A Compass for the Politics of Collapse by NationalPark on Monday August 30, 2021 @02:14PM (#28358963)
Anyone even vaguely familiar with the science understands that we need to cut emissions on a wide scale, and that air travel by a few hundred politicians is a meaninglessly small fraction of the actual problem. This is essentially a bad faith attack on the few people in congress trying to do something about climate change. Where is your ire for the dozens of Republican congressmen who don't believe climate change is real or believe the Christian end times will happen first? Please, be serious and don't engage in contrarian purity tests that only serve to set back our attempts at mitigation.
Re:A Compass for the Politics of Collapse by disgruntledphd2 on Monday August 30, 2021 @02:42PM (#28359309)
> Anyone even vaguely familiar with the science understands that we need to cut emissions on a wide scale, and that air travel by a few hundred politicians is a meaninglessly small fraction of the actual problem. This is essentially a bad faith attack on the few people in congress trying to do something about climate change.

The post you replied to isn't talking about the science, but rather the politics. Humans tend to respond badly to authority figures saying but not doing, and this is a real problem that we need to fix (by electing/creating better leaders) in order to meet the requirements of the moment.

So yeah, the total Congress emissions are tiny scientifically, but they're rather large politically.

Also, someone I once read highlighted that political polarisation increased when Reps could fly back home every weekend. Maybe one should require that Senators maintain their primary residence in D.C.?

Re:A Compass for the Politics of Collapse by tharne on Monday August 30, 2021 @02:46PM (#28359363)
> Where is your ire for the dozens of Republican congressmen who don't believe climate change is real or believe the Christian end times will happen first?

Oh, it's there, believe me. Just wasn't part of that particular post.

Re:A Compass for the Politics of Collapse by kbelder on Monday August 30, 2021 @02:27PM (#28359135)
How about your and mine air travel? Meaninglessly small fraction of the actual problem?
Re:A Compass for the Politics of Collapse by NationalPark on Monday August 30, 2021 @03:26PM (#28359828)
Indeed, commercial aviation is only something like 3% of overall carbon dioxide emissions globally. If you want to make a personal difference you would be an order of magnitude more effective if you stop commuting in a non-electric car or gave up consuming meat when dining in restaurants. Expecting individual action to fix this (or worse, blaming individual actions for it) isn't going to work though. Individual consumption is not the majority source of emissions, and it's a bit of a classic prisoners dilemma problem anyway, and we know how much Americans trust each other these days.
Re:A Compass for the Politics of Collapse by mistermann on Monday August 30, 2021 @07:05PM (#28361983)
Are you taking the human/mass psychology apect (which underlies human actions) of the problem into consideration?
Re:A Compass for the Politics of Collapse by equality_1138 on Monday August 30, 2021 @02:53PM (#28359449)
Many would say our political economy is built on insatiable consumption, and is therefore incapable of cutting emissions to such a scale to materially impact climate change. It makes no sense to blame 'Republicans' and/or 'Christians' for not trusting every proposed solution to these massively complex problems.
Re:A Compass for the Politics of Collapse by NationalPark on Monday August 30, 2021 @03:31PM (#28359898)
It's not that they "don't trust every proposed solution". It's that they do not believe the problem is real, and therefore do not trust any solution.
Re:A Compass for the Politics of Collapse by equality_1138 on Monday August 30, 2021 @03:36PM (#28359950)
It could be that when someone doesn't trust your solution, you call them out for not believing in the problem. Logical fallacy.
Re:A Compass for the Politics of Collapse by lazyasciiart on Monday August 30, 2021 @05:15PM (#28360945)
Or it could be that they say "climate change isn't real" in exactly those words.
Re:A Compass for the Politics of Collapse by equality_1138 on Monday August 30, 2021 @07:03PM (#28361974)
Another problem is when so many people take a politician's words at face value. It simply doesn't work like that.
Re:A Compass for the Politics of Collapse by lazyasciiart on Monday August 30, 2021 @07:33PM (#28362223)
First, this isn't limited to politicians. Second, calling it a logical fallacy to believe what others say about themselves is utterly ridiculous and doesn't move goal posts so much as it pretends there are invisible goal posts swooping around the field at will and only you can know if the ball goes in.
Re:A Compass for the Politics of Collapse by equality_1138 on Monday August 30, 2021 @08:05PM (#28362455)
Actually it is a logical fallacy to interpret one's rejection of a proposed solution to be a rejection of the problem. I'm not arguing any specific case for it, but it does seem to be quite common and problematic in civil discourse.

And the "another problem" is to misunderstand the way that money influences PR statements from powerful entities (politicians or otherwise). This part isn't illogical but just ignorant/mis-educated about wealth and power.

Re:A Compass for the Politics of Collapse by inglor_cz on Tuesday August 31, 2021 @12:08AM (#28363887)
"Do as I say, not as I do" is terrible politics. Politics is about leading other humans, in this case leading them to make less comfortable choices.