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Re:Online Publisher Dependent Upon Facebook Shuts Down, Blam... by chalst on Monday August 23, 2021 @04:26AM (#28273463)
Excerpt for the "John Gruber; Didn't Click" types:

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Here’s how utterly clueless Speiser was about getting into bed with Facebook. In June 2016, he told The Wall Street Journal there was no reason for publishers to be nervous about Facebook:

    Media companies are increasingly nervous about Facebook. While many now rely heavily on the social network to drive traffic to their content and to help generate revenue from their audiences, some media executives still question Facebook’s long-term commitment to helping their businesses.

    But according to Joe Speiser, chief executive of “feel-good” content publisher LittleThings, those concerns are unfounded. Facebook wants to control the experience users have on its platform, he said, but Facebook needs publishers just as much as publishers need Facebook.

    “I think we need each other. We need them for the traffic; they need us for the content,” Mr. Speiser said on this week’s WSJ Media Mix podcast. “I think [Facebook] cares very much. I think without the content all these media companies are providing there’d be that much less reason to go on to the news feed.”
18 months later exactly the thing Speiser said he wasn’t concerned about — Facebook fucking him over — forced him to shut down his company.
Re:Online Publisher Dependent Upon Facebook Shuts Down, Blam... by philipov on Monday August 23, 2021 @08:54AM (#28275000)
In a sense, he's right that Facebook needs someone to provide content for them. But Facebook has billions of someones to do that for them. They don't need any particular someone, and there will still be plenty of someones left over even if they screw everyone over.

This is why a company being too much bigger than its clients is an antitrust issue regardless of market share; B2B competition isn't the only thing that matters. A market must respond to signals from consumers to be healthy, and it won't do that if the individual customers are insignificantly small compared to the companies in that market. In such a market, collusion between the market leaders becomes more valuable than competition.

Re:Online Publisher Dependent Upon Facebook Shuts Down, Blam... by ineedasername on Monday August 23, 2021 @09:21AM (#28275268)
why a company being too much bigger than its clients is an antitrust issue

Content producers and Facebook users aren't the clients. Advertisers are the clients, people are the product.

Re:Online Publisher Dependent Upon Facebook Shuts Down, Blam... by philipov on Monday August 23, 2021 @09:23AM (#28275307)
That's a popular quip, but I think it's actually a form of thought-terminating cliche. If you want, they're clients in the sense that a government torturer's victim is their client.
Re:Online Publisher Dependent Upon Facebook Shuts Down, Blam... by ineedasername on Monday August 23, 2021 @09:28AM (#28275370)
I think that whoever is paying for something is the true client.

I also think that calling something thought-terminating can, itself, be thought terminating. In this case, a way of dismissing a commonly made point under the assumption that I have not thought through the issue on a much deeper level, but I have done so. We may simply disagree on our conclusions.

Re:Online Publisher Dependent Upon Facebook Shuts Down, Blam... by philipov on Monday August 23, 2021 @09:30AM (#28275388)
Users of facebook are paying for something, they're just not paying for it with cash. They're paying for it with their personal data.
Re:Online Publisher Dependent Upon Facebook Shuts Down, Blam... by ineedasername on Monday August 23, 2021 @09:53AM (#28275713)
That's not revenue. From Facebook's perspective, that's an input, a resource they have to obtain. Users are a supplier of raw material that Facebook distills & refines and sells on to the customers that pay them actual money.

Like any business, they have to maintain a good relationship with their suppliers. In this case they have to provide a platform that users return to over & over again. But they optimize their business towards revenue generation, not suppliers.

Re:Online Publisher Dependent Upon Facebook Shuts Down, Blam... by Mindwipe on Monday August 23, 2021 @05:25AM (#28273759)
> Here’s how utterly clueless Speiser was about getting into bed with Facebook. In June 2016, he told The Wall Street Journal there was no reason for publishers to be nervous about Facebook:

It is funny to read someone who has advocated developing for iOS for a decade to say things like this with no irony.

Re:Online Publisher Dependent Upon Facebook Shuts Down, Blam... by chalst on Monday August 23, 2021 @07:42AM (#28274420)
It's the difference between 30% fucked and 75% fucked.
Re:Online Publisher Dependent Upon Facebook Shuts Down, Blam... by ineedasername on Monday August 23, 2021 @09:25AM (#28275320)
If Apple changes its app store search algorithm you're still mostly fucked.

If Apple decides they like your app and want to copy it's features into their own app or iOS itself then you're 100% fucked.

In general, relying on the good will and unchanging rules of a 3rd party platform for your business is inherently risky.

Re:Online Publisher Dependent Upon Facebook Shuts Down, Blam... by 6510 on Monday August 23, 2021 @09:31AM (#28275399)
I like the part where you have to build the entire business before they will consider rejecting you.
Re:Online Publisher Dependent Upon Facebook Shuts Down, Blam... by ineedasername on Monday August 23, 2021 @09:08PM (#28284041)
Yep, if you're trying to build a new business based on an app, going for the absolute MVP to get early approval or rejection seems like a big requirement. Then just add incrementally until/unless an update gets rejected or you've built the full product. And then just hope the rules don't change.