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Re:Japan is holding back as the world rushes toward electric... by AtlasBarfed on Sunday August 22, 2021 @02:30PM (#28268114)
If it is simply protectionism, it is a particularly foolish one in the annals of economics. EV / alternate energy / grid storage is in "mature production" stage of full industrial scale-up, and is basically already at price parity (EV vs ICE drivetrain) or dramatically cheaper (Solar/Wind vs Coal/Natural Gas). Some solid state battery will hit production, and economies of scale are still in growth phase.

I imagine Toyota, the largest US car maker and probably globally the largest, is in deep trouble and is in total denial about it. Hitching your future to hydrogen which at it's best is probably about equal to EVs in cost, and which is so far behind practical use as a fuel that by the time (10? 20? years) a generation, transport, and fuelling infrastructure was built out, EVs probably will be 1/2 the cost they are now.

Re:Japan is holding back as the world rushes toward electric... by PhantomGremlin on Sunday August 22, 2021 @02:43PM (#28268234)
Hitching your future to hydrogen

This is absolutely baffling to me, given, as you noted, generation, transport, and fueling issues.

Stevie Wonder would have no problem seeing the problem with hydrogen, and yet Toyota still can't see it?

Re:Japan is holding back as the world rushes toward electric... by hakfoo on Sunday August 22, 2021 @03:21PM (#28268600)
I wonder if it's thoughts of a patent moat.

I'm guessing Nissan, GM, and Tesla have fairly robust patent portfolios related to recent EV tech.

Toyota probably has some stuff to offer related to the electrical side of the hybrid drive, but it's probably a far weaker portfolio-- some of their stuff is near the end of the patent lifecycle, and some is only useful in the context of range extended or hybrid-electric designs.

That means they can't offer a compelling cross-license agreement. It might cost them hundreds or thousands of dollars per vehicle to license the patents at "market rates", particularly of other players see it as a way to hobble a huge competitor.

OTOH, if they can make hydrogen work, they probably hold a lot more cards to deal with other manufacturers.

I'm surprised there wasn't more two-pronged thinking though. The selling point of hydrogen fuel-cell was that it was less subject to range anxiety, but we knew there are clearly identifiable markets where that message was a non-starter. No point selling a 500km range to a city dweller whose longest journey is 25km, but you could sell them a vehicle with Ni-MH batteries left over from 1990s laptops and it would cover their needs.

This would have allowed them to focus on the markets where liquid/gaseous fuel would make its last stands. I'd think freight would be the big one-- even if there's a charging station every 100km along the interstate, business wants to minimize fueling stops, so being able to say "800km+ range-- a full shift of driving on one tank of hydrogen" would set the bar high for electric competition.